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Did the Fascists in Italy come up with the now familiar Roman salute (made famous by the Nazis) or did the historical Romans really have that form of greeting? What are some of the other interesting ways that people greet each other?
They also didn't shake hands. They had rather interesting substitute - they will place forearm to the forearm, and place hands around upper forearm, close to elbow joint. That was staple in militaries, as they war forearm gauntlets, so there was no skin contact.
Romans were very higenic and avoided skin touch as much as they could. The so called "Nazi" salutation is neither Roman nor someone else's. Its origins are lost in time, but it is clearly symbolic, by pointing to the Sun or Gods in the sky.
Did the Fascists in Italy come up with the now familiar Roman salute (made famous by the Nazis) or did the historical Romans really have that form of greeting? What are some of the other interesting ways that people greet each other?
Fascists didn't come up with that salute. It was the salute used by the Roman army. It was adopted by Mussolini and then Hitler. It wasn't a greeting. It was a formal military salute.
Last edited by marino760; 12-27-2018 at 04:40 PM..
Exactly. Bellamy was, IIRC, a Christian socialist, and there is some thought that the Germans picked up his version of the salute. I find it mildly amusing that our far right, which demonizes and eschews any nod to socialism, loves the pledge of allegiance, which was born of pure socialism and socialist indoctrination.
As was mentioned, it wasn't a greeting.
From an anthropological POV, there is a somewhat universal greeting used by women where the voice goes in the upper register to indicate delight and lack of threat. The air kisses used in Europe as greetings actually have protocols based upon the region. Handshakes vary depending on culture as well. In the mideast, the barest touching is generally preferred compared to the vise-grip of the west.
Fascists didn't come up with that salute. It was the salute used by the Roman army ... It wasn't a greeting. It was a formal military salute.
The inscription on that shield is in Greek - in fact it could possibly be ancient Dorian, and in any case certainly not Latin: it says Απειρώταν, or "of the Apeirotes", i.e. Epeiros (Epirus), region of northwestern Greece which the Romans conquered in 167 BC.
About 115 years before that, the Epirotes, under Pyrrhos (Pyrrhic victory), a cousin of Alexander the Great, invaded southern Italy and briefly ruled Sicily, taking over from the Carthiginians, but the Romans in turn relatively quickly expelled the Epirotes.
Then, as mentioned, about a century later they began their conquest of Greece, culminating in 146 BC, same year as the Romans' final defeat of the Carthiginians.
At any rate, the image you posted - if it is genuine: it looks photo-shopped and could be a modern and/or anachronistic representation - might suggest that the gesture, as military salute or otherwise, goes further back in time than the heyday of the Romans.
The image of the bull on the shield probably also tells a story of its own which by far predates the Romans, even the Greeks themselves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkwensky
... did the historical Romans really have that form of greeting?
Finally, according to a wiki article on "Roman salute", "no Roman text gives this description, and the Roman works of art that display salutational gestures bear little resemblance to the modern Roman salute."
Can you provide a source for that image?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkwensky
What are some of the other interesting ways that people greet each other?
When I was a kid I came up with this four-step handshake between two persons:
1) clasp hands
2) clasp thumbs
3) clasp fingers
4) form pistol with thumb and forefinger while clasping rest of fingers.
Exactly. Bellamy was, IIRC, a Christian socialist, and there is some thought that the Germans picked up his version of the salute. I find it mildly amusing that our far right, which demonizes and eschews any nod to socialism, loves the pledge of allegiance, which was born of pure socialism and socialist indoctrination.
As was mentioned, it wasn't a greeting.
From an anthropological POV, there is a somewhat universal greeting used by women where the voice goes in the upper register to indicate delight and lack of threat. The air kisses used in Europe as greetings actually have protocols based upon the region. Handshakes vary depending on culture as well. In the mideast, the barest touching is generally preferred compared to the vise-grip of the west.
Don't we have military manuals from Roman or at least Byzantine times? Wouldn't military salutes be described in those? I'm surprised that something as prevalent as this would go unmentioned in historical records.
They also didn't shake hands. They had rather interesting substitute - they will place forearm to the forearm, and place hands around upper forearm, close to elbow joint. That was staple in militaries, as they war forearm gauntlets, so there was no skin contact.
Romans were very higenic and avoided skin touch as much as they could. The so called "Nazi" salutation is neither Roman nor someone else's. Its origins are lost in time, but it is clearly symbolic, by pointing to the Sun or Gods in the sky.
So the tv series Spartacus was historically accurate in this detail?
So the tv series Spartacus was historically accurate in this detail?
Are you trolling us by suggesting that a contemporary TV series, i.e. an entertainment product with commercial profit motive, would be reflective of careful scholarly study of history?
Even then, history is a concept, a vision thing, a pliable propaganda tool in the hand of an author, like so many statistics and statisticians.
The real question is, what value does it have to you?
Do you want the Roman salute, as employed in Europe in the 1920-1940s period, to have a basis in ancient Roman history?
Or maybe not?
Did those people in Europe during that period want it to? And for what purpose?
Finally, according to a wiki article on "Roman salute", "no Roman text gives this description, and the Roman works of art that display salutational gestures bear little resemblance to the modern Roman salute."
.
I've never come across any description of any military salutes or hand shake -type greetings in my reading of Latin histories.
The things depicted in the cinema are largely contrived by the artists. The classic "thumbs up or down" never happened. In reality, the sign to demonstrate displeasure with a particularly poor gladiatorial performance was "pollice revertetur"-- "he turned back with the thumb" as in "stab his throat." There was no "thumbs up."
Even the image portrayed by The Church of crucifixion has no literary substance behind it, never having been described in surviving literature of the era. There ae certain considerations of engineering & biomechanics that suggest our classic representation is false, while an ankle bone with a spike fixed transversely thru it was found a decade or so ago suggesting the victim was positioned spread eagle on an "X" with feet turned out.
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