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Old 12-26-2018, 08:11 PM
 
Location: Honolulu, HI
5,247 posts, read 1,398,860 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twinkletwinkle22 View Post
Rocko20 said: Not surprisingly, the plantation mentality is still there as the African American community is largely one of the most religious demographics in America with black churches seemingly on every corner in black neighborhoods.

We have different opinions about "plantation mentality." The AME churches were one of the most important supports for newly freed slaves, offering community, education and so much more to people who had to begin new lives with nothing. That's why churches were and remain so important to the African American community. They banded people together to achieve much more than individuals can do on their own, much like labor unions.

I am an amateur student of post-slavery transitional period and not a religious person at all.
I agree that Christianity was used to keep slaves enslaved then and today can perpetuate racism but in my opinion the African Methodist Episcopal Church has been responsible for uplifting more than holding down.
Christianity is not a west African religion (American slaves largely came from west Africa), that would be Islam.

African slaves were largely brainwashed and indoctrinated to accept Christianity under threat of violence.

The black church once served a great purpose for black schools, black businesses, black upbringing, and black comraderie during the periods of Jim Crow and segregation. But now the black church is often used by snake oil salesmen to finance their luxury cars and houses while the congregation largely lives paycheck to paycheck in high crime and dangerous areas, along with the blatant discrimination of homosexuality.

At this point, the black church has been very detrimental to the advancement of the African American community and the statistics reflect that. This is the “plantation mentality.” When you believe a deity is coming to save you because you were taught this as a slave, yet your own brother guns you down in the streets and your own pastor drives a Mercedes. Its ignorance.
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Old 12-26-2018, 08:39 PM
 
8,385 posts, read 8,697,440 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motion View Post
Was there anyway that U.S slaves could have freed themselves without a huge violent uprising?
Do you know of any instance ever, anywhere, that this happened?
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Old 12-26-2018, 09:09 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
5,453 posts, read 9,688,026 times
Reputation: 8761
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocko20 View Post
Itís no oneís guess, Brazil who had 4 million slaves and was the last country in the western world to ban slavery, abolished slavery in 1888

It doesnít take a rocket scientist to know America wouldíve abolished it before 1888 even in a southern victory. So about 20 years tops is how much longer it couldíve lasted because America sure as hell didnít have 4 million slaves like Brazil and it wasnít a 3rd world country like Brazil.
There were 3,953,761 slaves in the 1860 census. The problem with predicting what the end of slavery would have been is that it was protected by the Constitution from federal interference - it was up to individual states to abolish it. With roughly half of the states maintaining slavery, a constitutional amendment was unlikely, so maybe you can explain how it would have happened.

Being a rocket scientist doesn't help you understand history any better - maybe you need to study other sources.
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Old 12-26-2018, 09:42 PM
 
18,738 posts, read 10,283,519 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maf763 View Post
Slavery in America was not dying as of the Civil War. The slave population increased by 20% between the 1850 and 1860 census. It tripled in Texas during the same time. We'll never know when it would have ended had the Southern states not given up their Constitutional right to the practice. It wouldn't have survived to the present day, but whether it would have been 20 years or 50 years or more is anyone's guess.
Hell, yes, it would have survived until the present day. The indicative facts:

Big business has created a de facto slave labor population of illegal immigrants, and you won't see either political party actually change that.

Many state governments have gone full throttle with private prisons that rent out the labor of prisoners, and the state courts have had a glad hand in populating those prisons.

One of the most heinous facets of slavery was the trade of slaves for sexual purposes, including deliberate breeding of slaves for light skin and beauty. Between the lines, that was what caused the ruckus over Uncle Tom's Cabin when it was first published--people in that day knew what was being said between the lines. The fact that sex trafficking is still big business means that it would have still been big slavery business.
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Old 12-27-2018, 02:10 AM
 
Location: Honolulu, HI
5,247 posts, read 1,398,860 times
Reputation: 7518
Quote:
Originally Posted by maf763 View Post
There were 3,953,761 slaves in the 1860 census. The problem with predicting what the end of slavery would have been is that it was protected by the Constitution from federal interference - it was up to individual states to abolish it. With roughly half of the states maintaining slavery, a constitutional amendment was unlikely, so maybe you can explain how it would have happened.

Being a rocket scientist doesn't help you understand history any better - maybe you need to study other sources.
Maybe you should study common sense. The importation of slavery was banned by 1808. Abolitionism in the North was never going away and only grew as time went on. The fact there were almost 4 million slaves by 1860 only serves to how much harder it would be to manage the ever growing slave population.

If Brazil gave up on slavery, the last western country to do so, by 1888 and they had 15 MILLION slaves as a 3rd world country. I assure you America would have given up on it far sooner.

It's comical you would think a 1st world country with 4 million slaves would continue slavery beyond a 3rd world country with 15 million slaves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
Hell, yes, it would have survived until the present day. The indicative facts:
This is hilarious. Are people still picking cotton in the fields to make clothes today?

I'm sorry to burst your bubble but there's enough white guilt liberal people in America that would've stopped slavery a long time ago, had the south won. Abolitionism was a growing movement back then. Furthermore there were millions of non-white immigrants who came to America between then and now who would've no doubt supported abolitionism.

Slavery's days were numbered, and not even Brazil who has no reason to end slavery nor any civil war, could continue it after 1888.

Last edited by Rocko20; 12-27-2018 at 02:25 AM..
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Old 12-27-2018, 02:53 AM
 
Location: western East Roman Empire
6,234 posts, read 10,307,687 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twinkletwinkle22 View Post
I am an amateur student of post-slavery transitional period and not a religious person at all.
I agree that Christianity was used to keep slaves enslaved then and today can perpetuate racism but in my opinion the African Methodist Episcopal Church has been responsible for uplifting more than holding down.
You see, as you yourself say, there was slavery long before "Christianity" - or any other "religion" - and there will be slavery again long after it is forgotten. "Christianity" has nothing to do with it.

There was racism long before "Christianity" - or any other "religion" - and there is racism, and there will continue to be racism, long after it is forgotten. "Christianity" has nothing to do with it.

Simple logic 101. Common sense 101.

Humans are aggressive, opportunistic creatures, humans exploit humans, humans are racist - i.e. they break off and congregate into exclusive power groups, opportunistically -, it is part of human nature, and, as with any other shameful behavior, humans tend to cloak it behind this or that ideology to make it - nay, themselves - "smell" better.

It is more convenient to have blamed the "ideology" rather than what humans actually do, as humans.

I remember a quote from a college professor years ago, during the height of the so-called Cold War: "In capitalism, man exploits man; in communism, it is the other way around."

Ideologies come and go, like a fart in the breeze, but human nature is much harder to change, if at all.

Like so many misdiagnosing doctors who treat symptoms, but not the underlying causes of the disease, dooming (the patient) to repeat the cycle, opportunistically.

Good Luck!

Last edited by bale002; 12-27-2018 at 03:06 AM..
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Old 12-27-2018, 06:18 AM
 
18,738 posts, read 10,283,519 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bale002 View Post
Y"In capitalism, man exploits man; in communism, it is the other way around."
I agree with you about slavery, but that quote is at least 50 years old. I first heard it attributed to a Russian source.
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Old 12-27-2018, 07:04 AM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
5,453 posts, read 9,688,026 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocko20 View Post
I assure you America would have given up on it far sooner.
Again, how would this have happened? Constitutional amendment? All states agreeing to end the practice?

As an example, during the war, Lincoln offered the state of Delaware money to purchase the freedom of the slaves in the state, which had the fewest slaves of any state. He wanted the process to play out over 31 years, but the state refused.

It's going to take more than your assurances to convince anyone.
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Old 12-27-2018, 07:31 AM
 
18,738 posts, read 10,283,519 times
Reputation: 18490
Quote:
Originally Posted by maf763 View Post
Again, how would this have happened? Constitutional amendment? All states agreeing to end the practice?

As an example, during the war, Lincoln offered the state of Delaware money to purchase the freedom of the slaves in the state, which had the fewest slaves of any state. He wanted the process to play out over 31 years, but the state refused.

It's going to take more than your assurances to convince anyone.
Especially since we still have slavery being practiced today. Would there be illegal immigrants in fields and produce plants if slavery were still legal?
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Old 12-27-2018, 07:39 AM
 
8,965 posts, read 9,807,200 times
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A good question would be, what were slaves free of after being freed? And what aspect of slavery could they free themselves of. For all practical purposes their post slavery lives closely resembled their lives during slavery. We put too much emphasis on the word free. IMO they were only free to choose their master.

While growing up in the Midwest I had neighbors from Mississippi who still went back down south to pick cotton during cotton picking season in the 70's. For the most part their lives hadn't changed that much in over 100 years of so called freedom.
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