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Old 12-26-2018, 11:35 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
They travelled with spare horses, so they'd switch off riding them, as they went. The horse blood they used while traveling, not when they'd arrived at their destinations and set up camp.

How can you ride a horse without stirrups? lol. Have you never seen someone do that? It was common, before the invention of the stirrup, and common to Native Americans, when the horse was first introduced, too. (Some Native American tribes still have bareback racing events and other horsemanship competitions.) You don't need metal-smithing to make a stirrup. Perfectly good ones can be made from wood.

The Scythians became the Ossetians, in the Caucasus, who still speak a Scythian-derived language. Some were absorbed into other Asian populations, like the Khakass, in the Altai mountains, and the Tajik, of northern Iran and Tajikistan. At various times, they were expelled from one area or another, and moved to new areas, like northwest India.

The Alans, considered to be a Scythian tribe, migrated into Europe, influencing cultures there, and warring as mercenaries. They were eventually absorbed by the local populations throughout Western Europe. The mounted warriors that inspired the King Arthur legend, the Knights of the Round Table, are believed to have been Alans. Some settled in the Caucasus; where they have a small republic in the Russian Federation, known as Northern Ossetia-Alania. (There's also South Ossetia, in Georgia.) Other Scythians settled in eastern Romania, centered around the city and county of Iași (pronounced: "Yash"). Scythian descendants are scattered all over Eurasia.
Sorry that was a typo. I meant to write how can anyone ride without a stirrup. I doubt you can ride a horse effectively into combat without being able to balance. Before horseback riding, there was chariots. No one rode on top of horses.

So they had to control another horse, while carrying a lot of supplies? That would have been perfect time to attack them. Plus they still have to stop sometimes. That is a lot of horses to handle. That too be a perfect time to attack them. Get the horses all excited, and they will break off.
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Old 12-27-2018, 02:25 AM
 
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stirrup

So according to wiki, the stirrup been around before the Mongol Empire.
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Old 12-29-2018, 01:40 PM
 
Location: Vienna, Austria
423 posts, read 183,940 times
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Default Supply carring

Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Brazen_3133 View Post
Sorry that was a typo. I meant to write how can anyone ride without a stirrup. I doubt you can ride a horse effectively into combat without being able to balance. Before horseback riding, there was chariots. No one rode on top of horses.

So they had to control another horse, while carrying a lot of supplies? That would have been perfect time to attack them. Plus they still have to stop sometimes. That is a lot of horses to handle. That too be a perfect time to attack them. Get the horses all excited, and they will break off.
Supply always was a weak spot of any army. I consider Mongols replenished supplies in captured cities. The same we often can say about warriors . So Mongols didn't need to have very many supply wagons and carry them from Siberia.
Spoiler
They thought ... as the Germans when they began the Ardennes offensive and hoped to find supply of petrol .
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Old 12-29-2018, 03:20 PM
 
Location: S.W. British Columbia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Brazen_3133 View Post


....... As for their riding, Most civilization were competent enough on horse back. Horses themselves can only take so work. There has to be limits to it. You should be able to formulate strategy and tactics around knowing your enemies limitations.

Competent enough is an understatement for the Mongols. The Mongols were and still are the most skilled and most accomplished horsemen in the world, nobody can match them, nobody else ever will. The Mongolian steppes horses were and still are the toughest horses with the most enduring stamina of all other types of horses in the world. No other horses can match them. It was the steppes horses that made the Mongols who they were/are and they became one with each other, they had an almost symbiotic existence with each other. The Mongols lived in the saddle, their bodies were built for living in the saddle. Their offspring were born with bodies ready to be and live in the saddle. Without the steppes horses the Mongols would not have been able to exist nor to wage war and conquest as they did.


.
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Old 12-29-2018, 06:58 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Brazen_3133 View Post
Sorry that was a typo. I meant to write how can anyone ride without a stirrup. I doubt you can ride a horse effectively into combat without being able to balance. Before horseback riding, there was chariots. No one rode on top of horses.

So they had to control another horse, while carrying a lot of supplies? That would have been perfect time to attack them. Plus they still have to stop sometimes. That is a lot of horses to handle. That too be a perfect time to attack them. Get the horses all excited, and they will break off.
Of course you need stirrups to be effective as mounted warriors; that's why they were invented. (Although Native Americans managed pretty well w/o stirrups, but they weren't waging the kinds of massive battles the Mongols were.)

And re: controlling another horse; someone was in charge of herding the extra horses. Not a problem.
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Old 12-31-2018, 09:06 AM
 
Location: Brooklyn, New York
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MyTarge13 View Post
Add to all of this, that the Mongols were initially led by some of the greatest military minds of all time. Most lists of the "greatest generals" will have Ghengis Khan in the top 10 if not top 5 and Subotai is usually somewhere high of the list as well.
This. Even the later Mongol generals like Bayan were pretty formidable. The fact that Ghengis Khan and Subotai just happened to be born in the same timeline is remarkable. That's like if Alexander the Great had Napoleon as one of his commanders...
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Old 12-31-2018, 09:26 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
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Originally Posted by Gantz View Post
This. Even the later Mongol generals like Bayan were pretty formidable. The fact that Ghengis Khan and Subotai just happened to be born in the same timeline is remarkable. That's like if Alexander the Great had Napoleon as one of his commanders...
Not really. It was a warrior culture, so it fostered warriors, some of whom had leadership genius. The Greeks weren't predominantly a warrior culture, though they did have a warrior tradition.

Here's an interesting bit of biography, on how Subutai got his start in learning military strategy:

Quote:
Subutai seems to have been identified from early on by Temujin as special, and given rare opportunities for growth. Appointed to the prestigious post of Genghis Khan's ger (yurt) door guard during his teen years, Mongol histories say that Subutai said to Genghis Khan, "I will ward off your enemies as felt cloth protects one from the wind."[8] This access enabled him to listen on, and later join, the Mongol strategy meetings somewhere around his late teens and early twenties. Throughout most of Genghis Khan's lifetime, Subutai would have the opportunity to apprentice on detached missions under the elite Jebe (1211–12, 1213–14, 1219–23) and Muqali (1213–14), in addition to Genghis Khan himself (1219). It is likely that his unique access to the most brilliant Mongol leaders assisted his growth.

Last edited by Ruth4Truth; 12-31-2018 at 09:54 AM..
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Old 12-31-2018, 04:22 PM
 
Location: NW Indiana
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Of course you need stirrups to be effective as mounted warriors; that's why they were invented. (Although Native Americans managed pretty well w/o stirrups, but they weren't waging the kinds of massive battles the Mongols were.)

And re: controlling another horse; someone was in charge of herding the extra horses. Not a problem.
Stirrups are supposed to be particularly helpful when trying to use a bow and arrows on horseback.
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Old 12-31-2018, 05:20 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MyTarge13 View Post
Stirrups are supposed to be particularly helpful when trying to use a bow and arrows on horseback.
That's exactly what we were discussing; your point was already made earlier.
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Old 12-31-2018, 09:43 PM
 
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Not only they were "good warriors", but they have been known by their cruelty as well.

For example the captured prince of Novgorod ( along with other people) was smothered under a board platform, which Mongols put over them and gathered there to toast the victory.


But as far as their military might goes - "Tatar could live for a month, so Marco Polo maintained, on mare's milk or on blood tapped from the horse's veins, and could stay in the saddle two days at a time, not even dismounting to sleep or to let the animals graze. The Tatars took few captives and so suffered no encumbrances while on the march. When attacking a waled city they built around it another wall that cut supply lines and provided cover for themselves. They set battering rams against stone defenses or simply exhausted the defenders by hurling ever fresh troops against them. Once the town fell, the Tatars put all the citizens to the sword and fired the churches while crowded with refugees. Meeting an enemy force in the field, the Tatars surrounded it and overwhelmed it by sheer weight of numbers. The horde marched in squads, companies and brigades, and the men were sternly disciplined not to accept defeat.

There were sound reasons for the success of the Tatars... The Kievan forces succumbed to the vastly superior numbers. Batu led 150,000 horsemen across the Volga in 1237... Furthermore, the Tatars found Russia divided. Some of the princes refused to join in a common defense and held back to fight only for their own principalities. They fell singly, one after another. Whereas every man in the Tatar tribes was a soldier, in Kievan Russia only the boyars and citizens bore arms. The peasants and slaves met the attack passively, accepting the mastery of the invader or fleeing to the woods."


(Melvin G. Wren, "The course of Russian history.")



So this explains a thing or two I guess.

When it comes to riding and using the bows - check out this old video..



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPsUxLLeV1E


If you spend your life in a saddle since your early childhood, you definitely can keep your balance enough to free your hands, particularly when the horse is galloping straight forward.
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