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Old 01-08-2019, 08:29 AM
 
861 posts, read 541,386 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
My idea that the Pacific War was essentially a racist war, hinges on more than the propaganda. I explained it in my post. Both sides were racist, both sides viewed the opposition as racially inferior.

There was a level of primal viciousness in the Pacific Theatre that surpassed anything seen in the European Theatre. This probably resulted from a combination of racism, propaganda, and different cultural views on war.

The Japanese did not believe in surrendering, thus fighting to the last man, even in hopeless battles leading to suicide charges. They carried this belief of honor and dishonor into how they viewed enemies who opted for surrendering instead of fighting to the death. Their known harsh treatment of POWs (e.g. Bataan Death March) no doubt added fuel to the fire.
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Old 01-08-2019, 08:42 AM
 
156 posts, read 73,135 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post


The Japanese were certainly no less racist, and the Germans...well. But the Pacific War was truly a racist war. The Japanese believed themselves superior to their Asian neighbors and as a consequence, they deserved to dominate the region. They further believed that their incredibly rapid transformation from an isolationist nation into an aggressive imperial power, would be welcomed by the west. European powers had been carving up China for years, the Japanese felt that their bringing stability through conquest made them no different from the European and American powers. They were genuinely surprised by the west's negative reaction, and correctly surmised that these western colonial powers were not viewing the Japanese as equals, but as upstart inferiors.

America played into this idea by opposing the Japanese hegemony in China and sending the message...it is okay for western nations to be colonial powers, but the uppity Japs don't seem to know their place.
Their was a ton of international outrage and concern when Germany "annexed" parts of the Czech republic and Italy "colonized" Ethiopia. Don't pretend like their was such a double standard compared to Japan.
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Old 01-08-2019, 08:57 AM
Status: "The best view is after the hardest climb." (set 9 days ago)
 
Location: Wonderland
42,364 posts, read 33,847,060 times
Reputation: 59244
Oh brother. The phrase "Greatest Generation" is from the title of a book by Tom Brokaw (who was the child of folks from that generation). It's just a catchy phrase. It doesn't mean that this particular generation was THE GREATEST GENERATION THAT EVER LIVED. They were flawed humans like everyone before and after them.
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Old 01-08-2019, 09:47 AM
 
18,735 posts, read 10,278,192 times
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I would call the War Generation the greatest of our time. Those people certainly endured more and accomplished more than the generations following them.
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Old 01-08-2019, 10:21 AM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
25,269 posts, read 60,617,679 times
Reputation: 27992
They were the last generation to exhibit a hearty work ethic, a belief in selflessness over selfishness, community service, humility, faith, an focus on morality (even if often misplaced).

Of course they then raised the baby boomers to be a messed up lot and the decline in those areas began.

Then the messed up boomers raised a generation of snowflakes.

Now community service is something for criminals to do. Church? "No, what a waste of time, What do I get for going to church?" "Why should I work hard? I am not paid as much as some other people are and I cannot have all the tings I want. I am going to do all I can to sit at work and do nothing" "Selflessness? No way. I know that means I make effort and get nothing for me. that is backwards."

There are of course exceptions. But it is seen as the last of the really motivated, driven leaders and workers ended with that generation. For better or worse, they are the ones who raised this country from pretender to the greatest superpower the world has ever known. The following generations are at best holding things steady or by most estimations creating a decline. However the reason the rest of the world is not ignoring us, or dominating us, or ruling us, is because of the efforts of that generation.
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Old 01-08-2019, 11:26 AM
 
124 posts, read 24,073 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RosemaryT View Post
How old are you? Just curious. I don't think our country will ever win another war because we're too politically correct.

Racist? Really?
It was war propaganda. Have you looked at war propaganda from other wars? To energize young men to be able to stick a bayonet through someone else's chest, you have to create an enemy. Stories of "the evil enemy" circulating throughout society are as old as humanity itself.

This post just blows me away. You're not speaking German right now because of what "The Greatest Generation" did in the 1940s. My parents went through some terrifying times and their young adulthood was called "The Lost Youth" because they went from high school to war.
You lament political correctness, then immediately practice it yourself. The United States of the 1940s was obviously racist, and much more so than today. And that racism clearly manifested itself in attitudes toward Japan and the Japanese. This is not surprising. In fact, it is a very ordinary observation. But some people demand that such racism be ignored, or - even worse - that we pretend it did not exist at all. That is the very definition of political correctness: ie, that we not say things that might offend others. In this case, those 'others' taking offense are you. In fact, the demand that past blemishes on the character of the United States be ignored, if not whitewashed away, is a very common sort of political correctness practiced by those who claim to oppose political correctness.

And your excuse? That we'd all be speaking German if not for those Americans who fought World War II, as if it somehow follows that because a group did something that benefits us, the failings of that group should therefore be ignored? This is the History forum wherein history is to be discussed, not the Hagiography forum wherein national myths are to be promulgated and historical facts that do not fit such mythical narratives are discarded.

As an aside, the notion that Germany would have conquered the United States had the U.S. not entered World War II is baseless. Germany couldn't even conquer Britain - though had the U.S. remained completely neutral and had German leadership possessed the proper strategic discipline that it never actually displayed, they might've eventually starved them out after a years-long blockade. But the United States? Please. Germany was never going to have any means of crossing the ocean and conquering the United States. Logistically, it simply wasn't possible.

None of these facts mean that the World War II generation cannot be considered the 'greatest generation'. We don't need to hide history behind a facade of make-believe.
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Old 01-08-2019, 11:31 AM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
37,979 posts, read 17,798,269 times
Reputation: 17391
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mosep View Post
Their was a ton of international outrage and concern when Germany "annexed" parts of the Czech republic and Italy "colonized" Ethiopia. Don't pretend like their was such a double standard compared to Japan.
The above is all in your imagination. I wasn't addressing any double standards, you have misread my posts.
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Old 01-08-2019, 11:57 AM
 
Location: San Jose
1,625 posts, read 495,725 times
Reputation: 1761
The Greatest Generation in certain respects wasn't so great. It was that generation that ushered in the age of unregulated capitalism, hyper consumerism, global mass media, rampant drug addiction and the creation of the military industrial complex. Many of the war vets coming back home were not properly treated for PTSD. So many households of that era were marred with alcoholism, verbal abuse and domestic violence. The culture of the masculine strong silent type meant personal and household issues were never addressed and dealt with in a positive way. The repercussions of this would effect American culture for decades.
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Old 01-08-2019, 12:13 PM
 
156 posts, read 73,135 times
Reputation: 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
The above is all in your imagination. I wasn't addressing any double standards, you have misread my posts.

So what's the point of your posts? Seems you want to say America was more lenient on the European Axis powers than Japan because of racism.
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Old 01-08-2019, 12:22 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
37,979 posts, read 17,798,269 times
Reputation: 17391
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mosep View Post
So what's the point of your posts? Seems you want to say America was more lenient on the European Axis powers than Japan because of racism.
Again, you are reacting to something which was not there, I am not saying the above, I am not trying to say the above, it is a different topic from what I have been addressing.

My point was that the Pacific War was racist in nature. Racism was behind Japan's belief that they had a right to colonize East Asia and rule the territory. Racism was behind the west's reaction to this, Japan was doing what European powers had been doing for many years, cutting out slices of China and other areas for purposes of exploitation. The US had never objected when Britain, France and Germany had seized colonies in Asia, they only began to object when it was another Asian nation doing it.

Once the war was underway, both sides portrayed the enemy as non-human, as inferior racially, and as evil in nature.

I made no comparisons between the Pacific war and the European war, but here you are demanding that I defend such assertions. Please respond to what I write, not to what you imagine I must be thinking.
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