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Old 01-09-2019, 01:30 PM
 
Location: San Jose
1,661 posts, read 514,361 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GearHeadDave View Post
Like any other tag it is a generalization. Reality is that it is a continuum of generations, it wasn't like one day we flipped over to start birthing Baby Boomers.

Forgetting about generational tags, the American values began to change in the 60's and really degraded rapidly in the 70's and beyond. This is when we turned the corner to become a much more self-absorbed materialistic society.

That is the main reason we have a nostalgic view of the "greatest generation". They precede the change in values we saw in the latter part of the Twentieth Century.
Those in power generally are the guiding force of the culture. Who was in power, politically, socially and economically in the 60's, 70's and 80's? It was the Greatest Generation. They were the helmsmen who steered this nation into hyper-capitalism, consumerism and self absorbed materialism. A lot of the problems we see today with American culture was a byproduct of that generation.
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Old 01-09-2019, 01:33 PM
 
18,837 posts, read 10,399,801 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silibran View Post
I do think it is time for old boomers to leave politics though. It is time for the next generation to begin to lead.
For sure. Our generation is stuck in fighting the battles of the 60s. We're like Autobots and Decepticons.
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Old 01-09-2019, 01:38 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GearHeadDave View Post
Like any other tag it is a generalization. Reality is that it is a continuum of generations, it wasn't like one day we flipped over to start birthing Baby Boomers.
Well, that's almost the case in that case. That Baby Boom spike right after WWII is pretty darned definite (the Korean War "boomlet" is quite obvious as well, even though today it gets lumped into the overall "Baby Boom"). Just as definite was the Baby Bust in 1959. I'm not sure why the birth decline was so abrupt--birth control pills weren't approved by the FDA until 1960.
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Old 01-09-2019, 01:46 PM
 
Location: Rathdrum, ID
4,325 posts, read 4,105,691 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silibran View Post
... I think we are gradually becoming more tolerant. Its a slow process, but I do see some progress...
Can't agree. I am witnessing the opposite. It seems many, if not most people are becoming less tolerant of viewpoints not aligned with their own. The days of rational, respectful dialogue between those who see things differently are no more.
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Old 01-09-2019, 03:58 PM
 
Location: Southwest Washington State
20,160 posts, read 13,231,721 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
Well, that's almost the case in that case. That Baby Boom spike right after WWII is pretty darned definite (the Korean War "boomlet" is quite obvious as well, even though today it gets lumped into the overall "Baby Boom"). Just as definite was the Baby Bust in 1959. I'm not sure why the birth decline was so abrupt--birth control pills weren't approved by the FDA until 1960.
I donít know either. But there were ways to limit conception before 1959. But when the pill became widely available it changed everything.

It is amazing to me, when we have such a strong and vociferous anti abortion movement, that the pill has not been made an OTC med in drugstores. The price would likely come down, for one thing. Having easily available and cheap contraception would surely lessen the demand for abortions. But for reasons that escape me, anti abortionists tend to oppose the pill!

At any rate, you are right; the Baby Boom is an actual thing, an observed phenomenon.
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Old 01-09-2019, 05:56 PM
 
18,837 posts, read 10,399,801 times
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Originally Posted by silibran View Post
It is amazing to me, when we have such a strong and vociferous anti abortion movement, that the pill has not been made an OTC med in drugstores. The price would likely come down, for one thing. Having easily available and cheap contraception would surely lessen the demand for abortions. But for reasons that escape me, anti abortionists tend to oppose the pill!.
At some point in relatively recent American history--some time in the last half of the 19th century--America became enthralled in a kind of hyper-religiousity with a major element being a belief that "if you're in trouble, it's because you're being punished by God, and if you're being punished by God, then we're not going to oppose God's punishment."

This isn't exactly the academic Fundamentalist (capital F) Theology movement that arose in opposition to the Liberal Theology movement in Germany, but it may be the "trailer trash" cousin of that movement.

So in this instance, their feeling is/was: "You sinned and are being punished" as well as "If you want to sin, we're not going to help you evade punishment."
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Old 01-10-2019, 06:43 PM
 
Location: Southwest Washington State
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
At some point in relatively recent American history--some time in the last half of the 19th century--America became enthralled in a kind of hyper-religiousity with a major element being a belief that "if you're in trouble, it's because you're being punished by God, and if you're being punished by God, then we're not going to oppose God's punishment."

This isn't exactly the academic Fundamentalist (capital F) Theology movement that arose in opposition to the Liberal Theology movement in Germany, but it may be the "trailer trash" cousin of that movement.

So in this instance, their feeling is/was: "You sinned and are being punished" as well as "If you want to sin, we're not going to help you evade punishment."
I donít know if I agree with that. I suspect it has more to do with Catholic opposition to birth control. But this is an issue women need to champion. You can buy BC pills easily in Mexico, for Peteís sake.
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Old 01-10-2019, 07:28 PM
 
18,837 posts, read 10,399,801 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silibran View Post
I don’t know if I agree with that. I suspect it has more to do with Catholic opposition to birth control. But this is an issue women need to champion. You can buy BC pills easily in Mexico, for Pete’s sake.
Up to the 60s being Catholic in America was a minority status. After the late 1800s, the US became strongly anti-immigrant (which spawned some significant new American cultural issues) and Catholicism was seen as their religion--Italians, Irish, and Mexicans.

John F Kennedy had to publicly declare that he was not under Vatican control when he ran for president. We don't use the term WASP anymore, but in the 60s and 70s, it was fully understood that the ubervolk in America were White Anglo-Saxon Protestants-- Catholics stand back like all the rest.

So it had nothing to do with Catholic opposition to birth control because WASP-dominated US society didn't care about Catholics.

Not until after Roe v Wade put abortion on their radar, and it was in the 80s that the Moral Majority was formed to take on Catholics as allies.
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Old 01-10-2019, 09:56 PM
 
4,412 posts, read 1,986,238 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenFresno View Post
Those in power generally are the guiding force of the culture. Who was in power, politically, socially and economically in the 60's, 70's and 80's? It was the Greatest Generation. They were the helmsmen who steered this nation into hyper-capitalism, consumerism and self absorbed materialism. A lot of the problems we see today with American culture was a byproduct of that generation.
They also basically eliminated racial discrimination.
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Old 01-10-2019, 11:36 PM
 
Location: Southwest Washington State
20,160 posts, read 13,231,721 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
Up to the 60s being Catholic in America was a minority status. After the late 1800s, the US became strongly anti-immigrant (which spawned some significant new American cultural issues) and Catholicism was seen as their religion--Italians, Irish, and Mexicans.

John F Kennedy had to publicly declare that he was not under Vatican control when he ran for president. We don't use the term WASP anymore, but in the 60s and 70s, it was fully understood that the ubervolk in America were White Anglo-Saxon Protestants-- Catholics stand back like all the rest.

So it had nothing to do with Catholic opposition to birth control because WASP-dominated US society didn't care about Catholics.

Not until after Roe v Wade put abortion on their radar, and it was in the 80s that the Moral Majority was formed to take on Catholics as allies.
I lived through everything you have referenced in your post.

It is a known fact that conservative Catholics banded with conservative evangelicals to fight abortions. I surmise that the Catholic aversion to birth control is at the bottom of the anti abortionís aversion to freely available contraception. However, I do not know this; I only surmise.
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