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Old 01-29-2019, 10:48 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shanv3 View Post
I still cannot comprehend the reason for world war 1. Some mid sized kingdom ruler got killed by someone from serbia which was not even a small dot in europe that time..Was Germany getting too big for the traditional powers?
The late, great John Keegan wrote a great book about WWI. In it he state that experts today are still debating the actual causes.
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Old 01-29-2019, 04:28 PM
 
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If it hadn't been the Archduke's assassination, it would have been sparked for another pretext. After all, Europe had come to the bring of war a number of times in the years prior to 1914. In truth, I think aside from the Crimean War and the Franco-German War, Europe had forgotten how terrible a big war could be, and were itching to have some martial glory. Shooting Hottentots just wasn't enough fun.
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Old 01-29-2019, 04:48 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shanv3 View Post
I still cannot comprehend the reason for world war 1. Some mid sized kingdom ruler got killed by someone from serbia which was not even a small dot in europe that time..Was Germany getting too big for the traditional powers?

As others have said, if it wasn't the assignation of Archduke Ferdinand and his consort, another match would have lit that powder keg.


WWI was the last gasp of an ancien régime Europe dominated by (intermarried) royalty who in many cases long outlasted their time, and also over estimated their actual powers.


In many ways WWI was a continuation or climax if you will of forces unleashed via French Revolution and Napoleon. The monarchs of Europe tried to put that gene back in the bottle by beating Napoleon (and by extension France) twice militarily; but the die was cast.


Yes, Germany (more to the point Kaiser Wilhelm II) had been making war noises nearly ever since he came to the throne. That and his nationalistic ambitions to see Prussia take its rightful place on the world state with everything else his British empire cousin had (colonies, vast navy, etc...), were making many uneasy. Worse the ruling royal houses of Europe believed their own press; that is the dynastic bonds of intermarriage would keep peace in the "family". No such luck.


Lynchpin of WWI of course was Russia, and in particular Czar Nicholas II. He was a backwards ruler whose country was stuck in feudalism long after it died out mostly everywhere in Europe. Worse Russia aligned itself with Austria-Hungary; a vast empire like itself that was cobbled together of various disparate lands not all of which were happy about the situation.


In short the fever of nationalism was spreading across Europe. Various monarchs and their governments either promoted these feelings, and or clamped down. In any event something was going to pop.


Remaining question then would be how limited the damage would be; that is could things have been contained to Russia, Germany and the Austrian-Hungarian empire. Sadly this likely was impossible due to the entanglement of treaties and blood relations.


However play with the though if Russia hadn't mobilized her military setting off a chain reaction leaving Austria to sort herself out. That still leaves Germany (in particular Kaiser Wilhelm II) stirring the pot. Sooner or later that nation was going to do something that Great Britain was going to respond to quite severely.


Meanwhile both Russia and Austria-Hungary were monarchies on the brink. One or both would have exploded into full revolution with devastating consequences for the continent including likely drawing the same players of WWI into that mess.


The Romanovs in particular were on borrowed time, something even members of that family realized and spoke of; but henpecked Nicholas II and more importantly his German wife would hear none of it.
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Old 01-29-2019, 06:58 PM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shanv3 View Post
I still cannot comprehend the reason for world war 1. Some mid sized kingdom ruler got killed by someone from serbia which was not even a small dot in europe that time..Was Germany getting too big for the traditional powers?
In a nutshell, that "mid sized" kingdom (the Austria-Hungarian Empire) was Russia's next target for expansion. And France helped enable the Russians because their entire foreign policy was aimed at getting Alsace-Lorraine back from the Germans, Austria's main ally.

I know I am greatly simplifying it and the Germans deserve some blame as well (such as stupidly building a huge navy to fight against the British). But it was the Franco-Russian alliance of 1891 that surrounded Central Europe with a hostile France on one side and the expansionist Russian Empire on the other.
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Old 01-29-2019, 08:15 PM
 
Location: San Diego CA
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Reasons? The evolutionary nature of tribal warfare exacerbated by weapons technology. In the end we will destroy humanity simply because we love war.
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Old 01-29-2019, 08:20 PM
 
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old quote:
Greeks love war since we (they) are so good at it.
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Old 01-30-2019, 07:01 AM
 
Location: Great Britain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
Nope. A relative of other leaders and a signator to a few feel good 18th century model treaties...
thrust among a 20th century military reality.


The first of the more reading you should have has assigned in 10th grade:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habsburg_Monarchy
Germany though Britain would stay out of the war, however the terms of the London Treaty of 1839 committed Britain to defending Belgium, and it was on this premise and in order to stop Germany dominating Europe through invasion that Britain finally declared war.

Treaty of London (1839) - Wikipedia

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Old 01-31-2019, 04:42 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Brave New World View Post
Germany though Britain would stay out of the war, however the terms of the London Treaty of 1839 committed Britain to defending Belgium, and it was on this premise and in order to stop Germany dominating Europe through invasion that Britain finally declared war.

Treaty of London (1839) - Wikipedia


Further reading about perhaps the one man instrumental in bringing WWI about, far as Germany is concerned anyway: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theoba...thmann-Hollweg


Time and time again across the history of Europe it is these aristocrats playing at diplomacy that did nothing more than stir a pot.


United States though lacking an official aristocracy still peopled the State Department with Ivy League (Yale, Princeton, Harvard, etc...) graduates (or at least attended) who often saw the world through their own myopic WASP tinted lens.
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Old 02-01-2019, 07:11 AM
 
Location: Great Britain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BugsyPal View Post
Further reading about perhaps the one man instrumental in bringing WWI about, far as Germany is concerned anyway: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theoba...thmann-Hollweg


Time and time again across the history of Europe it is these aristocrats playing at diplomacy that did nothing more than stir a pot.


United States though lacking an official aristocracy still peopled the State Department with Ivy League (Yale, Princeton, Harvard, etc...) graduates (or at least attended) who often saw the world through their own myopic WASP tinted lens.


The Germans did try to make peace with us, however it wasn't in our own interest to have the Germans building a massive Empire in Europe. Which is why we entered the war using the excuse of the long forgotten 'Treaty of London'.

A lot of this goes back to the Kaiser, who was Queen Victoria's Grandson, but had a lot of resentment due to his crippled arm and other issues.

The Kaiser spent holidays on the Isle of Wight, with Queen Victoria at Osborne House, and saw the mghjt of the British Navy sail past as they made their way through the Solent and to the Portsmouth Naval Base, and thios obvioysly had an impact as he wanted to buoild a vast navy like the Royal NAvy of the time.

The Russian Romanov's also spent time on the Isle of Wight with Queen Victoria, as many of the Royal Families had becme even more interelated due to Queen Victoria's own scheming, which saw her try to marry the British Royal Family in toi European Royal families in order to ensure peace and prosperity, when in fact the exact opposite occurred.
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Old 02-01-2019, 05:46 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World View Post


The Germans did try to make peace with us, however it wasn't in our own interest to have the Germans building a massive Empire in Europe. Which is why we entered the war using the excuse of the long forgotten 'Treaty of London'.

A lot of this goes back to the Kaiser, who was Queen Victoria's Grandson, but had a lot of resentment due to his crippled arm and other issues.

The Kaiser spent holidays on the Isle of Wight, with Queen Victoria at Osborne House, and saw the mghjt of the British Navy sail past as they made their way through the Solent and to the Portsmouth Naval Base, and thios obvioysly had an impact as he wanted to buoild a vast navy like the Royal NAvy of the time.

The Russian Romanov's also spent time on the Isle of Wight with Queen Victoria, as many of the Royal Families had becme even more interelated due to Queen Victoria's own scheming, which saw her try to marry the British Royal Family in toi European Royal families in order to ensure peace and prosperity, when in fact the exact opposite occurred.
IIRC Prince Albert was the main architect of the "Grand Plan" that was supposed to bring peace to Europe via intermarriage of royal families. QV as in many other matters went along with and or actively promoted and participated in her husband's plans, schemes or whatever.


Major fly in this ointment was QV's own grandson and other German relations. Everyone knew Kaiser Wilhelm II was "difficult", and shouldn't be trusted an inch, but there really wasn't anyone to rein him and for that matter is country in, so that was that.


It is rather ironic that as WWI progressed it showed basically what many had been saying before the event began; the crowned heads of Europe were a bunch of stuffed shirts with no real power. The Kaiser was soon shunted aside (banished by his generals to giving out medals, inspecting troops, etc...), and in short order Nicholas II and others were removed and or equally pushed aside as well.


The often seen as "dim witted" George V managed not only to remain on his throne, but see his country victorious.
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