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Old 01-31-2019, 03:28 PM
 
Location: Somewhere in northern Alabama
17,187 posts, read 52,420,479 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marino760 View Post
Vikings never really crossed the Atlantic like traveling from Denmark to the mid Atlantic coast. They island hopped from northern Europe to Iceland, to Greenland, to North America....big difference. Some Eskimos did the same thing in reverse.
I know you didn't mean it that way, but you got me laughing at the idea of an Eskimo paddling a kayak backwards between continents.
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Old 01-31-2019, 03:29 PM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
12,367 posts, read 7,889,198 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenFresno View Post
..............For example I think the Vikings are overrated. In contrast to what has happening in Persia, the Middle East, China, India, Central America and Spain, the Vikings were a sparse backwater civilization. They generally had no scholar, engineer, scientist or writer of any note. Nor did they had no great architectural or engineering feat to their name..................
Shouldn't you consider that the Vikings became the Normans?
Normans defined Normandy, built England after 1066 and became the army of The Crusades. Norman built cathedrals and kingdoms, and since they spoke French, even changed the way we speak English today.
My favorite bit about the Normans is that they simply assimilated into the surrounding populace. They disappeared, yet they are still here...... Here I am - a Norman; a Celt.
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Old 02-01-2019, 02:20 AM
 
Location: Silicon Valley
3,232 posts, read 1,401,083 times
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I'd go with ancient Vietnam. Did China really get all of its knowledge from the legendary dragons....or is that a nice cover story to say they raped and pillaged the long existing society to the south of them and claim all the discoveries as their own....was their really no written Vietnamese language for 9000 years...or is it really the Chinese characters that we see today modified as time has passed.

https://taobabe.wordpress.com/ancien...-civilization/

She's got a lot of links to different things she's researched. Ancient Vietnam was also interesting in that they had female leaders even in ancient times.

Last edited by artillery77; 02-01-2019 at 02:29 AM..
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Old 02-01-2019, 12:26 PM
 
Location: San Jose
1,659 posts, read 511,967 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post
Shouldn't you consider that the Vikings became the Normans?
Normans defined Normandy, built England after 1066 and became the army of The Crusades. Norman built cathedrals and kingdoms, and since they spoke French, even changed the way we speak English today.
My favorite bit about the Normans is that they simply assimilated into the surrounding populace. They disappeared, yet they are still here...... Here I am - a Norman; a Celt.
The Vikings didn't become the Normans, some Vikings settled in Northern France, intermixed with the local Gallo-Roman and Frankish people which then became the Normans. The Normans were culturally and linguistically Gallo- Roman and Frankish with some Nordic culturally elements peppered in here and there. To claim the Normans as Vikings would be a massive stretch.
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Old 02-01-2019, 12:30 PM
 
Location: San Jose
1,659 posts, read 511,967 times
Reputation: 1821
Quote:
Originally Posted by artillery77 View Post
I'd go with ancient Vietnam. Did China really get all of its knowledge from the legendary dragons....or is that a nice cover story to say they raped and pillaged the long existing society to the south of them and claim all the discoveries as their own....was their really no written Vietnamese language for 9000 years...or is it really the Chinese characters that we see today modified as time has passed.

https://taobabe.wordpress.com/ancien...-civilization/

She's got a lot of links to different things she's researched. Ancient Vietnam was also interesting in that they had female leaders even in ancient times.
How much cultural and linguistic overlap is there between Vietnam and South China?
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Old 02-01-2019, 01:29 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley
3,232 posts, read 1,401,083 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenFresno View Post
How much cultural and linguistic overlap is there between Vietnam and South China?
Quite a bit. When it was the Nan Yue...there were the same country...starting where the Qin stopped...some of those lake names aren't Chinese in China....and then the Hans rode in and destroyed everything they could and enforcing their own Chinese history on them in a 1000 year occupation including the long established rights of women...hence the 3000 year old oral tradition as a source of pride, easily dismissed outright as legend for a long time, but with modern archaeology is slowly being recovered.

It's a worthy endeavor to look into, muddied by some Chinese faux scholars who seek only to maintain their revisionist history. I look forward to seeing future advancements in the area.
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Old 02-01-2019, 01:33 PM
 
804 posts, read 482,333 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artillery77 View Post
I'd go with ancient Vietnam. Did China really get all of its knowledge from the legendary dragons....or is that a nice cover story to say they raped and pillaged the long existing society to the south of them and claim all the discoveries as their own....was their really no written Vietnamese language for 9000 years...or is it really the Chinese characters that we see today modified as time has passed.

https://taobabe.wordpress.com/ancien...-civilization/

She's got a lot of links to different things she's researched. Ancient Vietnam was also interesting in that they had female leaders even in ancient times.
Sorry but I don't take history lessons from anime characters. In any case whatever dispute she has appear to be regional.
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Old 02-01-2019, 04:55 PM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
12,367 posts, read 7,889,198 times
Reputation: 18148
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenFresno View Post
The Vikings didn't become the Normans, some Vikings settled in Northern France, intermixed with the local Gallo-Roman and Frankish people which then became the Normans. The Normans were culturally and linguistically Gallo- Roman and Frankish with some Nordic culturally elements peppered in here and there. To claim the Normans as Vikings would be a massive stretch.
Not everyone believes it is a stretch. Viking leader Rollo started the ball rolling.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normans


At any rate I think you underrate the Vikings. The extended their influence into Russia (Russia is named after the Vikings. Vikings were called "Rus", or those who row.
The even journeyed south from St Petersberg overland and across the Black Sea to Constantinople and set up trade routes. The Viking longboat is a marvel of engineering.

But no, they never built cathedrals and so forth, but why would they? Christianity had never reached them when they approached Scotland in around 800.
Each civilization is a product of its environment. The northernmost Vikings struggled to eat at all; the ones in Denmark fared a little better. The Viking myth, with the horned helmet, has destroyed most of what was real about the Vikings.
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Old 02-01-2019, 11:50 PM
 
Location: Seattle WA, USA
3,760 posts, read 1,981,367 times
Reputation: 2400
Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post
Not everyone believes it is a stretch. Viking leader Rollo started the ball rolling.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normans


At any rate I think you underrate the Vikings. The extended their influence into Russia (Russia is named after the Vikings. Vikings were called "Rus", or those who row.
The even journeyed south from St Petersberg overland and across the Black Sea to Constantinople and set up trade routes. The Viking longboat is a marvel of engineering.

But no, they never built cathedrals and so forth, but why would they? Christianity had never reached them when they approached Scotland in around 800.
Each civilization is a product of its environment. The northernmost Vikings struggled to eat at all; the ones in Denmark fared a little better. The Viking myth, with the horned helmet, has destroyed most of what was real about the Vikings.
Yeah I don't think the Vikings are overrated, just that they are severely misunderstood, and in many ways are underrated since everyone seems to focus on one small aspect of them, and that is pillaging of coastal towns along the north sea. There is a lot more to them than meets the eye. In many ways they are the Phoenicians of the medieval age. Also not only did they trade with Byzantium, but they also sailed across the Caspian and traded with the Persians. I don't know of any other group of people of their time or before who had such a large network of trade routes, everything between Persia and Vinland.
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Old Yesterday, 12:30 PM
 
27 posts
Reputation: 21
Overrated: Rome
Underrated: Greece
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