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Old Yesterday, 12:35 PM
 
11,147 posts, read 4,499,085 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PossiblyIndecisive View Post
Overrated: Rome
Underrated: Greece
On what planet can Rome be overrated? Europe and the entire western world as we know it exists today largely because of both the Greeks and Romans. Neither can possibly be over rated.
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Old Yesterday, 12:49 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marino760 View Post
On what planet can Rome be overrated? Europe and the entire western world as we know it exists today largely because of both the Greeks and Romans. Neither can possibly be over rated.
On planet Earth, not sure people on Mars have an opinion on this.

Bit of an in-joke for those who read classical history that Rome basically just used their army to export Greek culture. I was being tongue in-cheek, but there is a grain of truth in there too. Not that the Romans didn't add their own innovations.
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Old Yesterday, 12:53 PM
 
11,147 posts, read 4,499,085 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PossiblyIndecisive View Post
On planet Earth, not sure people on Mars have an opinion on this.

Bit of an in-joke for those who read classical history that Rome basically just used their army to export Greek culture. I was being tongue in-cheek, but there is a grain of truth in there too. Not that the Romans didn't add their own innovations.
Let's not forget that Romans accepted Christianity resulting in billions of Christians around the world today. Also many languages spoken today come from Latin. Even English has 60-80 percent of words coming directly from Latin or French which is a Romantic language.
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Old Yesterday, 01:02 PM
 
37 posts, read 654 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marino760 View Post
Let's not forget that Romans accepted Christianity resulting in billions of Christians around the world today. Also many languages spoken today come from Latin. Even English has 60-80 percent of words coming directly from Latin or French which is a Romantic language.
Absolutely, but the point is that the basis of Roman culture came from Greece, and never really strayed too far from that formula. They themselves were aware of this.

Rome excelled in areas such governance, engineering, warfare, art. However, they weren't at the same level as the Greeks in an intellectual sense. Greece was inventive in areas such as science and philosophy. Even when the Roman Empire was in full swing, Greece was still the source of many of the Empire's greatest intellectuals. Also, throughout the course of the Empire the Greek-speaking east was generally more successful than the Latin west, and outlasted it by a thousand years. Although there's lots of factors behind this, it doesn't just boil down to the fact that they spoke Greek.
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Old Yesterday, 01:17 PM
 
2,685 posts, read 501,607 times
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If we apply it to every country that is geographically part of it and as an umbrella term for all of those country's civilizations, pretty much every civilization can be overrated and/or underrated in some form.
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Old Yesterday, 10:32 PM
 
3,213 posts, read 2,336,249 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PossiblyIndecisive View Post
On planet Earth, not sure people on Mars have an opinion on this.

Bit of an in-joke for those who read classical history that Rome basically just used their army to export Greek culture. I was being tongue in-cheek, but there is a grain of truth in there too. Not that the Romans didn't add their own innovations.

This is false, and I have read Homer, Hesiod, Herodotus, Thucydides, Xenophon, Livy, Plutarch, Tacitus, Suetonius, Josephus, Dio, the Augustine Scribe, Ammianus, Quintus, Plato, Sophocles, Euripides, Aeschylus, Appolonius, Ovid, Apuleius, Caesar, Virgil, Pliny the Younger, Pseudo Callisthenes, Arrian, Sallust, Polybius, Cicero, and any number of others whose names are not popping into my head. I am currently working on Quintus Curtius Rufus.

The Romans had a 500-year Republic which mirrors our own with its division of powers, whereas the best the Greeks could do was put up a short-lived Democracy in Athens. which quickly degenerated into demagoguery. The Romans made extensive use of the arch in architecture which allowed them to build marvels never dreamed in the Greek world. Roman art was much more dynamic and varied, incorporating styles from all over the known world. Romans were, in general, much more advanced in terms of women's rights, as they could own wealth and run businesses. They were light years ahead of the Greeks in terms of warfare.

And on, and on.

Each has their due in history.

My own pics:

Overrated: Sumer and Mesopotamia
By just a hair. The west ultimately derives its lettters from Egyptian hieroglyphics, not cunieform, and new discoveries have the two neck-and-neck as to which is older. There is really not anything in the ancient middle east as impressive as the pyramids or Egyptian temples. It used to be that the historical and archaelogical communities turned their nose up a bit at those with an Egypt interest, but I think that is being re-thought.

Underrated: The Nubian cultures (Kerma, Kush, Meroe) and the Ethiopian cultures (Damot, Adulis, Axum).
There were very important and vibrant cultures in the ancient world that are just not much talked about because they were on the peripheries of the mediterranean world.

Last edited by cachibatches; Yesterday at 10:45 PM..
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Old Yesterday, 11:25 PM
 
Location: San Jose
1,659 posts, read 511,967 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cachibatches View Post
Overrated: Sumer and Mesopotamia
By just a hair. The west ultimately derives its lettters from Egyptian hieroglyphics, not cunieform, and new discoveries have the two neck-and-neck as to which is older.
Actually the west derives it letters most specifically from the Phoenician alphabet not from Egyptian hieroglyphics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cachibatches View Post
There is really not anything in the ancient middle east as impressive as the pyramids or Egyptian temples.
The Hanging Gardens of Babylon. Actually it should be called the Hanging Gardens of Nineveh since it was built there and not in Babylon. An Assyriologist at the university of Oxford has stated that she has evidence that the famous Hanging Gardens of Babylon were actually built in Nineveh the capital of the Assyrian Empire. What makes the gardens special is that they split a river in half and then diverted the water through a 60 miles long aquaduct ( The Jerwan Aqueduct) (the first one ever built btw) using over 2 million stones. The aqueduct was notable in that it crossed over a river in route to Nineveh. They did this 6 centuries before the Romans did. Once there it feed the worlds largest garden built on man made terraces, the water was pumped upward using Archimedes screw (which was apparently invented centuries before he claimed it as his own).


Reconstruction of the Aqueduct


Ruins of the Aqueduct as it stands today.


Possible Garden Design


Assyrian Relief of the Gardens

Quote:
Originally Posted by cachibatches View Post
Underrated: The Nubian cultures (Kerma, Kush, Meroe) and the Ethiopian cultures (Damot, Adulis, Axum).
There were very important and vibrant cultures in the ancient world that are just not much talked about because they were on the peripheries of the mediterranean world.
Agreed. Overlooked and underrated.
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Old Yesterday, 11:51 PM
 
804 posts, read 482,333 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cachibatches View Post
This is false, and I have read Homer, Hesiod, Herodotus, Thucydides, Xenophon, Livy, Plutarch, Tacitus, Suetonius, Josephus, Dio, the Augustine Scribe, Ammianus, Quintus, Plato, Sophocles, Euripides, Aeschylus, Appolonius, Ovid, Apuleius, Caesar, Virgil, Pliny the Younger, Pseudo Callisthenes, Arrian, Sallust, Polybius, Cicero, and any number of others whose names are not popping into my head. I am currently working on Quintus Curtius Rufus.

The Romans had a 500-year Republic which mirrors our own with its division of powers, whereas the best the Greeks could do was put up a short-lived Democracy in Athens. which quickly degenerated into demagoguery. The Romans made extensive use of the arch in architecture which allowed them to build marvels never dreamed in the Greek world. Roman art was much more dynamic and varied, incorporating styles from all over the known world. Romans were, in general, much more advanced in terms of women's rights, as they could own wealth and run businesses. They were light years ahead of the Greeks in terms of warfare.
The Roman form of mixed government isn't that different from Sparta's or other Greek oligarchies. Aristotle would've admired it if as he praised Carthage's government in Politics, and the Roman Republic is very similar in form the the Carthaginian. I wouldn't call the Athenian democracy short lived either. It survived the loss of the Peloponnesian War and persisted in a more limited way even after Macedonian conquest.
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Old Yesterday, 11:52 PM
 
3,213 posts, read 2,336,249 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenFresno View Post
Actually the west derives it letters most specifically from the Phoenician alphabet not from Egyptian hieroglyphics. .
Phoenician is derived from Egyptian. You prove my point.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenician_alphabet


Quote:
Originally Posted by KenFresno View Post
The Hanging Gardens of Babylon. Actually it should be called the Hanging Gardens of Nineveh since it was built there and not in Babylon. An Assyriologist at the university of Oxford has stated that she has evidence that the famous Hanging Gardens of Babylon were actually built in Nineveh the capital of the Assyrian Empire. What makes the gardens special is that they split a river in half and then diverted the water through a 60 miles long aquaduct ( The Jerwan Aqueduct) (the first one ever built btw) using over 2 million stones. The aqueduct was notable in that it crossed over a river in route to Nineveh. They did this 6 centuries before the Romans did. Once there it feed the worlds largest garden built on man made terraces, the water was pumped upward using Archimedes screw (which was apparently invented centuries before he claimed it as his own).


Reconstruction of the Aqueduct


Ruins of the Aqueduct as it stands today.


Possible Garden Design


Assyrian Relief of the Gardens
.
I knew about this and discussed it previously:

Seven Wonders of the Ancient World


. They still aren't in the class of the pyramids. The Great Pyramid was the tallest building in the world for 4000 years and the only one of the seven wonders still standing.



Quote:
Originally Posted by KenFresno View Post
Agreed. Overlooked and underrated.
Excellent.
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Old Yesterday, 11:57 PM
 
804 posts, read 482,333 times
Reputation: 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenFresno View Post
Actually the west derives it letters most specifically from the Phoenician alphabet not from Egyptian hieroglyphics.



The Hanging Gardens of Babylon. Actually it should be called the Hanging Gardens of Nineveh since it was built there and not in Babylon. An Assyriologist at the university of Oxford has stated that she has evidence that the famous Hanging Gardens of Babylon were actually built in Nineveh the capital of the Assyrian Empire. What makes the gardens special is that they split a river in half and then diverted the water through a 60 miles long aquaduct ( The Jerwan Aqueduct) (the first one ever built btw) using over 2 million stones. The aqueduct was notable in that it crossed over a river in route to Nineveh. They did this 6 centuries before the Romans did. Once there it feed the worlds largest garden built on man made terraces, the water was pumped upward using Archimedes screw (which was apparently invented centuries before he claimed it as his own).


Reconstruction of the Aqueduct


Ruins of the Aqueduct as it stands today.


Possible Garden Design


Assyrian Relief of the Gardens



Agreed. Overlooked and underrated.
The Phoenicians, or whoever the true inventors of the alphabets were, derived it from the demotic form of Egyptian writing, so alphabets can be traced to Egypt.

Monumental architecture didn't last in Mesopotamia because it is not as dry as Egypt, and most of the buildings were made of mud bricks which eventually melted. That should not be taken as evidence that they were less advanced than Egypt.
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