U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > History
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 02-16-2019, 11:05 AM
 
Location: Glasgow Scotland
14,768 posts, read 11,993,231 times
Reputation: 21365

Advertisements

According to historians French was spoken by the nobility while English was for the peasants. https://linguistics.stackexchange.co...poken-language
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-16-2019, 11:15 AM
 
11,758 posts, read 17,908,760 times
Reputation: 17759
Quote:
Originally Posted by dizzybint View Post
According to historians French was spoken by the nobility while English was for the peasants. https://linguistics.stackexchange.co...poken-language
Yeah, I've mentioned it here before. Back before the 19th century French was the global language of choice. Everyone that was anyone spoke it. Seems it replaced Latin in the 16th or 17th century.

Now English is the global language of choice.

(P.S.: Dude - off topic cross post comment/suggestion - go fix or acknowledge your embarrassing error in this thread:
After slavery was abolished, why werent they returned to their home country?)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-16-2019, 10:57 PM
 
19,206 posts, read 12,583,447 times
Reputation: 12931
For centuries the two languages any "educated" person was supposed to have mastered were French and Latin.


American passports like many others around the world have both native language (in this case English), and French.


French influence is evident in England/GB many ways. The prime example is surnames.


Use of "d'" or "de" as a preposition does not exist in English, but of course it does in French. Thus those with "of" (which is what "de or du mean") before their surnames indicates a French linage that *may* go back to the time of when Normans were running things in England.


French influence also explains surnames that are pronounced differently than their English spelling. Most famous example of this is Mrs. Hyacinth Bucket insisting her husband's last name is pronounced "Bouquet"


There are scores of these English surnames that are derived from Old French which came across the Channel with the Normans: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Categ...rom_Old_French


If you expand things out to English surnames simply derived from French it goes into hundreds: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Categ...es_from_French
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-17-2019, 12:01 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
75,354 posts, read 67,150,617 times
Reputation: 72358
Quote:
Originally Posted by dizzybint View Post
According to historians French was spoken by the nobility while English was for the peasants. https://linguistics.stackexchange.co...poken-language
It was the same in Russia.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-17-2019, 12:59 AM
 
19,206 posts, read 12,583,447 times
Reputation: 12931
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
It was the same in Russia.
You can thank Peter The Great and French Revolution mostly for that:https://www.rbth.com/politics_and_so...-russia_770185


Another thing to remember is nearly universally nobility, wealthy and even upper middle classes well into the 20th century all learned French. This was true nearly universally over western and eastern Europe well as Canada and USA.


Leaving aside that French had long been the de facto universal language of diplomacy (now largely being replaced by English), it was one of the acceptable languages for "ladies" to speak other than their own native tongue. This would prove to be important as high born females (royalty, nobility or whatever) married outside their countries and were thus shipped off to foreign lands.


There was also all the sensibilities attached to French culture, manners and so forth. Bestowing upon those who spoke the language all sorts of chic (think Jackie Bouvier Kennedy). In fact a bonus point to Jack Kennedy in favor JFK marrying Jackie was her French Catholic background; far more acceptable to society then than his own Irish roots.


One of the other main languages taught to boys/men at least was Latin, especially in England/GB. Females not so much, but never the less a foreign language does have benefits. For one thing it allowed high born/educated persons to converse amongst themselves with some sort of privacy in a time when servants were ever present or nearby.


North Americans and British would use phrase "Pas devant les domestiques" when something was meant not for servants/great unwashed ears. https://www.merriam-webster.com/word...es-domestiques


Today of course it is seen as quite rude to speak a foreign language in the presence of those who (presumably) cannot understand what is being said.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-17-2019, 04:52 AM
 
Location: Glasgow Scotland
14,768 posts, read 11,993,231 times
Reputation: 21365
Quote:
Originally Posted by BugsyPal View Post
You can thank Peter The Great and French Revolution mostly for that:https://www.rbth.com/politics_and_so...-russia_770185


Another thing to remember is nearly universally nobility, wealthy and even upper middle classes well into the 20th century all learned French. This was true nearly universally over western and eastern Europe well as Canada and USA.


Leaving aside that French had long been the de facto universal language of diplomacy (now largely being replaced by English), it was one of the acceptable languages for "ladies" to speak other than their own native tongue. This would prove to be important as high born females (royalty, nobility or whatever) married outside their countries and were thus shipped off to foreign lands.


There was also all the sensibilities attached to French culture, manners and so forth. Bestowing upon those who spoke the language all sorts of chic (think Jackie Bouvier Kennedy). In fact a bonus point to Jack Kennedy in favor JFK marrying Jackie was her French Catholic background; far more acceptable to society then than his own Irish roots.


One of the other main languages taught to boys/men at least was Latin, especially in England/GB. Females not so much, but never the less a foreign language does have benefits. For one thing it allowed high born/educated persons to converse amongst themselves with some sort of privacy in a time when servants were ever present or nearby.


North Americans and British would use phrase "Pas devant les domestiques" when something was meant not for servants/great unwashed ears. https://www.merriam-webster.com/word...es-domestiques


Today of course it is seen as quite rude to speak a foreign language in the presence of those who (presumably) cannot understand what is being said.
Oh you mean like our shop across the road... it goes on all the time.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-17-2019, 11:47 AM
 
1,958 posts, read 817,931 times
Reputation: 1527
The effects of this survive today. I've spoken about this in other threads.

Most highfalutin words in use today in the English language are French. Lots of English speakers today litter their writing with lofty french words and italicized French expressions, thinking that adds substance to their writing. That's the legacy of Norman conquest of England, generational brainwash that survives today not just in England but in all the former Colonies.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-17-2019, 01:05 PM
 
28,836 posts, read 46,088,714 times
Reputation: 14973
Quote:
Originally Posted by dizzybint View Post
According to historians French was spoken by the nobility while English was for the peasants. https://linguistics.stackexchange.co...poken-language
Because William the Conqueror conquered England and forced the NORMAN brand of “French”as the upper class language
William was not king of France which was just a large province or separate state in what now is the country of France...
There were English/Anglo-Saxon nobility that likely spoke French as well as their own native blend of Norse and Saxon languages—but most of them lost their lands and their privileged ownership of lands after the Norman Conquest...since that was the purpose of his conquest—to take over land/power...
The Welsh still spoke Welsh as their language and modern Welsh still do
with the Scots speaking Gaelic
And English as we know it didn’t even exist at that time...
Ever read the Canterbury Tales in “English”?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-17-2019, 01:15 PM
 
1,958 posts, read 817,931 times
Reputation: 1527
Quote:
Originally Posted by loves2read View Post
Ever read the Canterbury Tales in “English”?
Yes. Middle English is readable. It's actually taught in schools in the original.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-17-2019, 01:49 PM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
53,262 posts, read 52,367,813 times
Reputation: 62705
Quote:
Originally Posted by dizzybint View Post
According to historians French was spoken by the nobility while English was for the peasants. https://linguistics.stackexchange.co...poken-language
In other news, the blue light scatters fastest.

I thought this was pretty basic common knowledge, no?
__________________
Moderator posts are in RED.
City-Data Terms of Service: http://www.city-data.com/terms.html
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > History
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top