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Old 03-04-2019, 08:07 PM
 
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People who think media like "To Play The King/House of Cards", or "Yes, Minister" and so forth are loads of flannel, ought to think again.


There are and always have been shall we say "dark" or whatever forces about the monarch personally and or at least the Crown.


It was those forces who chopped off Mary, Queen of Scots head knowing Elizabeth truly didn't want her royal cousin executed. Same forces also maneuvered Mary's son James I onto the English throne.


George VI on down all knew or whatever that the Prince of Wales just wasn't up to the job as king, and would disgrace himself (if not the nation) if he inherited. Sad thing is way hereditary monarchies are set up unless you off the heir, he cops the lot.


Taking murder off the table, those same dark forces put the Prince of Wales and later Edward VIII had to go; Wallis Simpson gave everyone the out which was required.


According to the unwritten (largely) English constitution a monarch per se didn't have to seek approval from his government regarding matters of the RF and that included marriage. However if that advice was sought then monarch must acquiesce to his government's decision.


Edward VIII was backed into seeking approval from the government/Commonwealth to marry Wallis. A little workings of Sir Humphrey or Francis Urquhart got the answer Grey Men wanted; and that was that.


On the whole tend to agree; the Prince of Wales loved being the heir, but didn't wish to inherit. He certainly wasn't the first (nor likely last) eldest son who felt that inheriting would put a damper on their fun.


Wallis Simpson for her part wasn't the first woman to find out getting man all worked up is one thing; turning him off quite another. She played a dangerous game on a level totally unequipped to manage. A British or even European woman of certain background and or temperament would have seen the apparent danger. But Wallis Simpson let things go too far and too long.


By the time things reached a peak point Wallis Simpson was trapped like a rat. If she bolted it would confirm everything the RF and others were saying, and damned her for posterity. How does one leave a man who just has literally given up *everything* for you, and did so with the entire world watching.


The now Duke of Windsor even if he was unhappy with his duchess was equally trapped. He could hardly divorce her or even give light to the talk she was a loose tart. Again after all it would bring down a crushing noise of "we told you so..."


Even if the DofW wanted to or did put Wallis away, what then? He still likely wouldn't be allowed back into England/GB for obvious reasons. A king and ex-king in the same nation never works out.


There is a story told about the DofW by someone who saw he and the dss dining out in France shortly after the abdication/their marriage. The Duke of Windsor was trying without much success to get the attention of a waiter. They ignored the duke as were busy with other things. Teller of the story said that proved how low the duke had sunk; previously as PofW and certainly as king people groveled at his feet. Now they couldn't be bothered and the man couldn't even get a bit of salt or whatever from a waiter in restaurant.


That really was the extent of the Duke and Duchess of Windsor lives; outside of second rate Europeans or Americans no one really wanted to be bothered with them. They scrounged invitations but only accepted those where the hosts paid for their transport and accommodation. When Cunard line got fed up and told the duke and duchess there would be no more free travel, they relied even more upon the kindness of strangers. IIRC the US Line offered them free or reduced passage, and various hotels (for the publicity one suspects) gave them reduced or free hospitality.
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Old 03-04-2019, 10:12 PM
 
Location: Middle of the Pacific Ocean
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I was a fan of Wallis Simpson and still advocate for her and Edward VIII on the issue of love, but I am finding it harder and harder to like her (and him) based on their support for Hitler and antisemitism. Note, here in the States, I don't know if she is looked upon poorly. And I don't know for sure, but I'd think that there was a lot of support for Wallis among her fellow countrymen and countrywomen.
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Old 03-04-2019, 10:14 PM
 
Location: too far from the sea
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snip for brevity Wallis Simpson for her part wasn't the first woman to find out getting man all worked up is one thing; turning him off quite another. She played a dangerous game on a level totally unequipped to manage. A British or even European woman of certain background and or temperament would have seen the apparent danger. But Wallis Simpson let things go too far and too long.


By the time things reached a peak point Wallis Simpson was trapped like a rat. If she bolted it would confirm everything the RF and others were saying, and damned her for posterity. How does one leave a man who just has literally given up *everything* for you, and did so with the entire world watching.


Thank you for your insights and summaries. (BTW I did go and watch the documentary about the long lost letters--many thanks to marino for that tip). I have no sympathy for Wallis the gold digger but I do realize that the very upper classes are different and they can get away with things behind the scenes that normal people wouldn't dream of doing --as long as appearances are kept up.

Wallis played with fire, went too far, and then didn't know how to get out. The documentary based upon her letters stated that she wanted out but then she thought for a while that she actually could become royalty. When it turned out that she would be nothing, she tried to get out of it again. When he threatened to slit his throat, apparently she couldn't leave or she would have looked even worse. So she went ahead and married him and got what she had coming to her for her greed and shameless using of people.
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Old 03-04-2019, 10:28 PM
 
11,362 posts, read 4,631,149 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by in_newengland View Post
snip for brevity Wallis Simpson for her part wasn't the first woman to find out getting man all worked up is one thing; turning him off quite another. She played a dangerous game on a level totally unequipped to manage. A British or even European woman of certain background and or temperament would have seen the apparent danger. But Wallis Simpson let things go too far and too long.


By the time things reached a peak point Wallis Simpson was trapped like a rat. If she bolted it would confirm everything the RF and others were saying, and damned her for posterity. How does one leave a man who just has literally given up *everything* for you, and did so with the entire world watching.


Thank you for your insights and summaries. (BTW I did go and watch the documentary about the long lost letters--many thanks to marino for that tip). I have no sympathy for Wallis the gold digger but I do realize that the very upper classes are different and they can get away with things behind the scenes that normal people wouldn't dream of doing --as long as appearances are kept up.

Wallis played with fire, went too far, and then didn't know how to get out. The documentary based upon her letters stated that she wanted out but then she thought for a while that she actually could become royalty. When it turned out that she would be nothing, she tried to get out of it again. When he threatened to slit his throat, apparently she couldn't leave or she would have looked even worse. So she went ahead and married him and got what she had coming to her for her greed and shameless using of people.
I'm glad you saw the documentary. She did play with fire for selfish reasons and probably regretted it the rest of her life. Part of me feels sorry for her, the other part tells me she ended up getting what she deserved and lived with her bad choices for the rest of her life which was a long time since I think she lived to be 89.
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Old 03-04-2019, 11:46 PM
 
Location: too far from the sea
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Originally Posted by marino760 View Post
I'm glad you saw the documentary. She did play with fire for selfish reasons and probably regretted it the rest of her life. Part of me feels sorry for her, the other part tells me she ended up getting what she deserved and lived with her bad choices for the rest of her life which was a long time since I think she lived to be 89.
It was a really interesting documentary and I found it easily on You Tube. Thanks again.

She just floated from one man to another, not caring about any of them. Money, social status, maybe getting to be a royal highness, were all that mattered. By the time she married him, she practically despised him. She treated him like dirt because that's how he liked to be treated. Sick relationship. Must have been those in the government plus some in the royal family who decided to really disgrace him and punish him. Maybe those people did something so she couldn't back out--that's one thing I wonder about.

She had to spend the rest of her life in exile. At least if she had backed out (he wouldn't have killed himself. He would have been well guarded) she might have gone on to find someone else to marry. She already had more furs and jewels than anyone could need. But I guess she never would have had any social status again and that's what mattered to her. Not like a normal person who wants love and a home.

I remember those last 14 years or so when she lived in France alone after he died and reading about how miserable and boring her life was. She got what she deserved though and I feel no sympathy. A little bit of social climbing and marrying for money was to be expected in those days and in those circles but she just couldn't stop.
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Old 03-05-2019, 01:57 AM
 
Location: Glasgow Scotland
14,978 posts, read 12,069,881 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marino760 View Post
I'm glad you saw the documentary. She did play with fire for selfish reasons and probably regretted it the rest of her life. Part of me feels sorry for her, the other part tells me she ended up getting what she deserved and lived with her bad choices for the rest of her life which was a long time since I think she lived to be 89.
She got what she always wanted..............to be rich and slim......her wish was granted..
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Old 03-05-2019, 08:06 AM
 
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Originally Posted by dizzybint View Post
She got what she always wanted..............to be rich and slim......her wish was granted..
She never struck me as very good looking. Was she a "real dish" by the standards of those times?
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Old 03-05-2019, 08:43 AM
 
Location: Glasgow Scotland
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Originally Posted by Moth View Post
She never struck me as very good looking. Was she a "real dish" by the standards of those times?
No by all accounts she had a mans jaw big hands and not very good looking at all but she must have had something...
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Old 03-05-2019, 12:03 PM
 
29,267 posts, read 46,258,265 times
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Originally Posted by Brave New World View Post
In 2003 secret government MI5 and Special Branch files on the 1936 abdication crisis were released and it became clear that Wallis Simpson took a Mayfair car salesman called Guy Marcus Trundle (a married man from York) as her lover while she was in a relationship with Edward, Prince of Wales.

Joseph Kennedy, the American ambassador at the time, described Mrs Simpson as a "tart", and his wife, Rose, refused to dine with her.

BBC NEWS | UK | Mrs Simpson's secret lover revealed

Wallis Simpson's extraordinary collection of lovers | Daily Mail Online

Car dealer was Wallis Simpson's secret lover | UK news | The Guardian

King Edward VIII bugged during abdication crisis - BBC News

The only reason this is coming out is that it is a new way to tell an old story—
Accurate—no
She was a vain, shallow, vindictive woman who would have reveled if England had been invaded and her “David” replaced his brother as a figurehead king so she could thumb her nose at the royals and be crowned queen...

Anyone trying to paint her as a more kinder, gentler woman should do a biography of Imelda Marcos...
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Old 03-05-2019, 12:10 PM
 
29,267 posts, read 46,258,265 times
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Originally Posted by dizzybint View Post
No by all accounts she had a mans jaw big hands and not very good looking at all but she must have had something...
David apparently was into some kinky things==at least what was kindy by the House of Windsor’s standards
And WWS had no qualms about giving what he needed...
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