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Old 03-11-2019, 01:57 PM
 
Location: San Jose
1,831 posts, read 553,604 times
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Being a conqueror essentially makes anyone into a monster. Caesar included.
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Old 03-11-2019, 03:11 PM
 
2,482 posts, read 609,380 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenFresno View Post
Being a conqueror essentially makes anyone into a monster. Caesar included.
It's one force driving another. Do you think one ever "conquered" anything using temperance and moderation? Besides themselves?
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Old 03-11-2019, 03:44 PM
 
Location: San Jose
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddm2k View Post
It's one force driving another. Do you think one ever "conquered" anything using temperance and moderation? Besides themselves?
Engaging in massive and widespread violence and terror for the glorification of oneself is the most text book definition of a sociopath one could come up with. Caesar didn't conquer Gaul for the resources, he conquered Gaul for the glorification of himself and Rome. He even bragged about how many women and children he butchered in his conquests. Hard to make a case for him being anything other then a narcissistic sociopath.
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Old 03-11-2019, 04:31 PM
 
2,482 posts, read 609,380 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenFresno View Post
Engaging in massive and widespread violence and terror for the glorification of oneself is the most text book definition of a sociopath one could come up with. Caesar didn't conquer Gaul for the resources, he conquered Gaul for the glorification of himself and Rome. He even bragged about how many women and children he butchered in his conquests. Hard to make a case for him being anything other then a narcissistic sociopath.
I don't doubt much of the DSM was written after studying such people.

Even billionaires who are somewhat modern, white collar versions of these conquerors are known to have eccentricities beyond that of middle-income people.

I think the similarities include ruthlessness and a complete lack of self-awareness.
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Old 03-12-2019, 01:11 AM
 
Location: Glasgow Scotland
15,119 posts, read 12,125,976 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddm2k View Post
I don't doubt much of the DSM was written after studying such people.

Even billionaires who are somewhat modern, white collar versions of these conquerors are known to have eccentricities beyond that of middle-income people.

I think the similarities include ruthlessness and a complete lack of self-awareness.
eccentrics arent sociopaths though.. reading about some notorious leaders in history most had a screw loose and were narcissists in the worst way possible.... all about them. regerdless of lives lost or how mental their orders were.. but then they are in all walks of life especially in the workplace. the Little Nero s or Hitlers. who disregard anyone who gets in their way and bully with fear of losing their jobs if they dont toe the line....Eccentrics are usually upper class types but thats only because that the poor would be locked away in an asylum.......for the same behaviours.
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Old 03-12-2019, 09:13 AM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
12,804 posts, read 8,091,062 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenFresno View Post
Engaging in massive and widespread violence and terror for the glorification of oneself is the most text book definition of a sociopath one could come up with. Caesar didn't conquer Gaul for the resources, he conquered Gaul for the glorification of himself and Rome. He even bragged about how many women and children he butchered in his conquests. Hard to make a case for him being anything other then a narcissistic sociopath.
All true, but we need to consider a couple of things:
The first thing is, the conquering of Gaul was done in the first century BCE. Publicly killing people was fairly normal then and unthinkable now.
The other thing is, the only written source we have for his activities in Gaul were written by Caesar himself. Most people think there is a lot of truth to what he has written - after all, he DID win - but Caesar had lots of reasons to promote himself. (Source: Dan Carlin's Hard Core History podcast)


There are very few world leaders whom I view as altruistic. Almost all of them simply have a screw loose. Winston Churchill was altruistic; FDR had a screw loose. IMHO.
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Old 03-12-2019, 10:15 AM
 
Location: Glasgow Scotland
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Presidents Abraham Lincoln and John F Kennedy, along with Civil War generals Ulysses S. Grant and William Tecumseh Sherman and civil rights leader Martin Luther King Jr, all struggled with mental health issues, often depression, said Tufts University psychiatry professor Dr. Nassir Ghaemi, who has written about historical figures' psychological issues. He also points to British Prime Minister Winston Churchill and Mahatma Gandhi as major historical figures who thrived while having emotional issues.
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Old 03-12-2019, 11:20 AM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
12,804 posts, read 8,091,062 times
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Originally Posted by dizzybint View Post
Presidents Abraham Lincoln and John F Kennedy, along with Civil War generals Ulysses S. Grant and William Tecumseh Sherman and civil rights leader Martin Luther King Jr, all struggled with mental health issues, often depression, said Tufts University psychiatry professor Dr. Nassir Ghaemi, who has written about historical figures' psychological issues. He also points to British Prime Minister Winston Churchill and Mahatma Gandhi as major historical figures who thrived while having emotional issues.
Worthwhile comment, I think.
I wouldn't want to branch out into modern day politics, but will you LOOK at what is being said, claimed and promoted these days!?
How on earth will history sort all this out?
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Old 03-12-2019, 11:30 AM
 
Location: Glasgow Scotland
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Did you know that Caesars sister were called Julia Minor and Julia Major..
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Old 03-12-2019, 11:38 AM
 
2,482 posts, read 609,380 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dizzybint View Post
eccentrics arent sociopaths though.. reading about some notorious leaders in history most had a screw loose and were narcissists in the worst way possible.... all about them. regerdless of lives lost or how mental their orders were.. but then they are in all walks of life especially in the workplace. the Little Nero s or Hitlers. who disregard anyone who gets in their way and bully with fear of losing their jobs if they dont toe the line....Eccentrics are usually upper class types but thats only because that the poor would be locked away in an asylum.......for the same behaviours.
There should have been a divider line between my first statement and the rest. The top portion applying to old-school conquerors, and the balance applying to modern, "civilized" billionaires.
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