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Old 04-02-2019, 03:03 PM
 
6,227 posts, read 6,379,313 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mensaguy View Post
Dueling was already illegal when Burr shot Hamilton.
Does not mean it did not happen.
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Old 04-02-2019, 03:20 PM
 
Location: 912 feet above sea level
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kovert View Post
I remember I saw a western where the main character early on raped a woman.

Its best to sometimes see the main character/s as protagonist/s rather than hero/es.

That was a time & place that could be very brutal & unforgiving & the media relating to that context sometimes is reflective of that.
In modern English, 'hero' is often used interchangeably with 'protagonist' when discussing fiction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ironpony View Post
Which movie was this?
High Plains Drifter is my guess.
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Old 04-02-2019, 04:07 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ironpony View Post
Which movie was this?

Some one already said it; that is, High Plains Drifter with Clint Eastwood (sometimes, the TV version eliminates the rape scene).
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Old 04-02-2019, 05:41 PM
 
Location: Eastern Washington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulsker 1856 View Post
Of course not.

In the case of the historical shootout at the OK Corral, the Earps were moving to disarm the Clanton gang, who were already causing trouble and were in violation of Tombstone's prohibition of carrying firearms (those entering town had to surrender their weapons - why would a lawman allow someone the opportunity to produce a firearm that person wasn't even legally allowed to carry?). The Earps and company were variously holding their guns (though, generally, discreetly - they were hoping everything would go down without incident) or had them readily available. It is not even certain that all the gang members were armed (accounts differ on whether or not Tom McLaury had turned in his gun at the saloon).

The idea that lawmen were giving criminals some sort of 'sporting chance' is pure nonsense. They were performing a job, not practicing some sort of chivalric code. Quick-draw duels are almost entirely mythical, as were the ludicrous scenes of one gunslinger slaying a handful of opponents at once (those stupid enough to try such things led very short lives). Also, long guns were often favored, in contrast to the archtypical revolvers of cinema.

The western genre's accuracy in portraying the behavior of law enforcement is about on par with that in Die Hard - which is to say, like pretty much everything in pretty much every western, it's fantasy.

It's also unrealistic that the above-mentioned revolvers, that held only 6 rounds and then had to be reloaded in a process that would take a real expert with very quick hands at the very least 15 seconds - frequently fired dozens of rounds, one right after the other. Because Hollywood. They stop filming while they reload. Because the reload scenes would not be entertaining enough (actually they would be quite entertaining to me, because I actually shoot SAA Colt revolvers.)



In general, Hollywood distorts almost any historical fact they get their hands on, because frequently the real story does not flow fast enough, or is simply not entertaining enough. A realistic cop, western, or war movie would mostly be boring, almost enough to put you to sleep, until suddenly "it hits the fan", and then stuff would be blowing up left and right to the point you could hardly make sense of it.
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Old 04-02-2019, 06:03 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Mitch View Post



In general, Hollywood distorts almost any historical fact they get their hands on, because frequently the real story does not flow fast enough, or is simply not entertaining enough.
Ever notice in the older westerns where you would see 25 guys playing the Indians come charging on horseback, the ensuing fight will show a dozen of them being shot out of the saddle by the cavalry/settlers/pioneers ..whatever...and when the Indians give up and retreat, you see 25 guys riding away? Why did they always do it this way? Did they fear that a less filled screen would lose the audience?
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Old 04-02-2019, 06:15 PM
 
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This may be a little off topic, but watch "The Homesman" with Tommy Lee Jones and Hillary Swank. It is a depressing Western.
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Old 04-02-2019, 06:19 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AddyW View Post
This may be a little off topic, but watch "The Homesman" with Tommy Lee Jones and Hillary Swank. It is a depressing Western.
Something to keep in mind if I am ever feeling overly cheerful.
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Old 04-03-2019, 01:32 PM
 
Location: Raleigh
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No, not at all. No sensible lawman would want test his speed against a similarly skilled opponent; too great a chance that he would die.

Billy the Kid (a hitman) was shot in the dark when he was likely unarmed by Sheriff Pat Garret. Pat Garret was shot when he was taking a leak.

John Wesley Hardin was shot in the back of the head by a Constable that happened upon him in a bar.

When confronting a drunken cowboy that was shooting up the town, Wild Bill Hickock came up to him and said, "Don't shoot him in the back, he's drunk!" The Drunk spun around and Hickock shot him...from behind.

Or Frank Hamer, who ambushed and killed Bonny and Clyde, though that creeps into the modern era...

You didn't survive long by being the fastest gun, you survived by getting the drop whenever possible.
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Old 04-03-2019, 03:40 PM
 
Location: 912 feet above sea level
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JONOV View Post
John Wesley Hardin was shot in the back of the head by a Constable that happened upon him in a bar.
Well, no sense in taking any chances. After all, Hardin was 'so mean, he once shot a man just for snoring'. At least, that's what I heard the commercial hawking those Time-Life Old West books say about a gazillion times when I was a kid sitting in front of the tube!
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Old 04-03-2019, 04:08 PM
 
12,300 posts, read 18,421,290 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarstowC View Post
Some one already said it; that is, High Plains Drifter with Clint Eastwood (sometimes, the TV version eliminates the rape scene).
Yeah but in Drifter the "Man with No Name" was a supernatural entity, a ghost. So we can already assume the ahistorical accuracy of that.

This is an interesting topic, the American Western are traditionally a mythological view of America - individualism, freedom, honor. They are parables and morality tales. No for the most part they aren't accurate, for one thing most cowboys couldn't hit the broadside of a barn with their revolver, most didn't even carry firearms on their person. You see everyone strapped in westerns but in reality even then many towns had open carry laws. I see pictures of the old west, I rarely see them with holsters and revolvers strapped on.
But anyways the best western movies destroy that illusion, destroys the myth - "The Unforgiven", "The Assassination of Jesse James by The Coward Robert Ford", etc. or tell of the death, the passing, of the old west: "Once Upon a Time In The West", "The Wild Bunch", or play upon the mythology of the west but bring in the anti-hero or the outside influence that brings even a greater tale of violence, the best being "The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly" and the inclusion of the American Civil War.

Last edited by Dd714; 04-03-2019 at 04:24 PM..
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