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Old 05-06-2019, 04:12 PM
 
Location: San Diego CA
4,848 posts, read 3,377,310 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
Somewhat off topic but our military was severely outgunned in the Spanish-American war - we used Krag rifles which had this strange side loading feature. We were fighting the Spanish with the superior German Mauser design and loaded by stripper clips. This includes fighting in the Philippines. The spanish were able to load faster and the 7MM Mauser bullet had more energy then the Krags .30 caliber and thus both more lethal and had better range. Eventually we replaces the Krags (I have to get one to add to my collection) with the 1903 springfield, and excellent rifle but it was essentially a rip-off of the Mauser.
Mauser sued us, the US ended paying royalties every year until, legend has it, WW1 where war broke out and then we told the Hun to pound sand. I think in reality there was some sort of settlement but I like the WW1 story.

I owned a Springfield 03A3 for years before I sold it downsizing for a move to California. Built by Smith Corona I think in 1943. Bought it at a Kresge store in 1970 for 99.00 bucks. No idea what they're worth now.
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Old 05-06-2019, 04:32 PM
 
9,182 posts, read 9,265,199 times
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Louis LaMour who wrote western novels and is since long deceased opined on this while I was listening to a radio show he was on years ago. He made it clear that there were two things you didn't do in the Old West. You didn't shoot an unarmed man or a man in the back. Do that and you were likely to be hanged if you weren't lynched first. However, shooting an armed man face to face was totally different. Such a killing was presumed to be in self defense. So, when you saw your enemy on the street you didn't hold your fire. You just opened up when you realized you had a shot.
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Old 05-06-2019, 09:06 PM
mym
 
572 posts, read 803,426 times
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when i was a kid i read the g gordon liddy book. its been a while but he wrote that when the fbi needed to learn how to shoot they could chose between ww1 veterans or super old western sheriffs. they chose the sheriffs because the soldiers were more suited for long range engagements while the old western shooters were close quarters experts, could shoot targets while looking at them in mirrors and taught them to lean forward so you could go down shooting.
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Old 05-06-2019, 09:21 PM
 
Location: Cape Cod/Green Valley AZ
870 posts, read 2,090,698 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msgsing View Post
I owned a Springfield 03A3 for years before I sold it downsizing for a move to California. Built by Smith Corona I think in 1943. Bought it at a Kresge store in 1970 for 99.00 bucks. No idea what they're worth now.
If it's still stock (i.e., you didn't mess with it!), then, a lot.

Rich
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Old 05-07-2019, 06:43 AM
 
Location: NW Nevada
14,154 posts, read 11,625,680 times
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Originally Posted by msgsing View Post
I guess that even into the early 20th century pistol rounds were not necessarily powerful enough to bring down an opponent. I recall that US troops in the Philippine insurrection of the early 1900’s had trouble with their government issue 38’s. One reason the 45 Model 1911 was introduced.

The 45 Colt was a very effective round. Troops in the Phillipines were begging for their SAAs back and they got them till the 45 ACP went into service. And it was the 1903 model ACP not the 1911. It was the Moro tribesmen, Muslim radicals, power was needed for. And the latter was a smokeless round. The Krag sucked compared to the Mauser but was better than the Trapdoor Springfield. The 45 Colt was a dandy for a BP revolver round. In the Colt SAA it made some history.


This is the stereotypical gun in most Western movies. After 1873 it would have been though many old cap n balls were still in service.

Last edited by NVplumber; 05-07-2019 at 07:05 AM..
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Old 05-07-2019, 03:15 PM
 
1,514 posts, read 999,241 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
Louis LaMour who wrote western novels and is since long deceased opined on this while I was listening to a radio show he was on years ago. He made it clear that there were two things you didn't do in the Old West. You didn't shoot an unarmed man or a man in the back.
My sneaking suspicion is that human nature being what it is, those rules were routinely violated.


In short, for every duel between prepared opponents, there were many more bushwackings from ambush, staged confrontations in which the target, whether armed or unarmed, stood no chance and olde fashioned mob beat downs of a lone target with mining tools.
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Old 05-07-2019, 03:35 PM
 
Location: NW Nevada
14,154 posts, read 11,625,680 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
Louis LaMour who wrote western novels and is since long deceased opined on this while I was listening to a radio show he was on years ago. He made it clear that there were two things you didn't do in the Old West. You didn't shoot an unarmed man or a man in the back. Do that and you were likely to be hanged if you weren't lynched first. However, shooting an armed man face to face was totally different. Such a killing was presumed to be in self defense. So, when you saw your enemy on the street you didn't hold your fire. You just opened up when you realized you had a shot.

LOL. I have all of Louis LaMour and Zane Grey's collected works in my library. None are true to life. But are...entertaining. The true American West was nowhere near as romantic as Hollywood or fiction writing depicts. The Indian wars, frontier town life, it was nowhere near as glamourous as depicted. It was dirty nasty and mean.
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Old 06-24-2019, 10:57 AM
 
5,180 posts, read 4,672,714 times
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Originally Posted by kovert View Post
Not necessarily all the time.

You definitely have cats like the Michael Collins Deathlok 2.0 who fit the hero bill.

There are also those like the Punisher who range the blurry borders between hero-anti-hero-villain.

Then you have a character whose various incarnations defies all three classifications & categorizations (not just Fixit persona regardless of color; but also Mindless, Savage, Professor in his hirsute, olive mad Maestro form [frankly some stories even touched upon the irony of having the good doctor being the moral center yet being the one whose weapons of mass destruction track record can be just as bad if not worse than what his alter ego has ever done, a theme the early Lee stories played with during his Army employ])

Actually I think Werewolf By Night is a much better example than Punisher of a character whose career spans the blurry ranges between hero & monster, force of nature vs. villain 2nd only to Doc B. himself.
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Old 06-25-2019, 09:58 AM
 
2,330 posts, read 1,346,985 times
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good example
if ive read correctly wyatt erp **** and killed someone from behind...ambush style
the kill ratios were always exaggerated and the heros weren't always what tv portrays them
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