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Old 04-09-2019, 02:53 PM
 
15,062 posts, read 19,642,227 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theoldnorthstate View Post
So wrong and simplistic.

Evil people (slave owners) were in the North as well as the South. "What would be Union states during the War had 451,021 slaves counted in the 1860 census. Twenty years earlier, in the 1840 census, there were 355,777 slaves counted and in 1850, 415,510. When you look at the census data, New England is the only region where slavery ends rather quickly. In other areas of the north and west, slavery continues until right up to the Civil War. " K.L. Thompson.
So the North owned 10% of slaves in the country
You use that to say that the South owning 90% of slaves in the country is not evil
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Old 04-09-2019, 02:54 PM
 
9,371 posts, read 10,150,686 times
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I think the Civil War was a last resort. Ant-Slavery sentiment began from the onset of Slavery. The abolitionist movement began in earnest on the heals of the Second Great Awakening in the upper south. It wasn't just North against South or Slave owners against non-slave owners. Some abolitionist were slave owners as well as many plantation owners had strong ant-slavery sentiments. It was during the 40 years previous to the Civil War that exhausted every possible compromise that allowed the South to keep their slave labor.

The diarist, Mary Chesnutt wrote in her book Diary From Dixie, that at the onset of the war a family and fellow plantation owner asked her's and her husband's permission to hide his slaves on her plantation. She agreed but lamented that he didn't know they were not going to be of any value to him. She probably didn't know who was going to win the war at this point. I interpreted this as She knew that the war itself would end slavery no matter who won.
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Old 04-09-2019, 03:15 PM
 
Location: Nescopeck, Penna. (birthplace)
12,324 posts, read 7,469,086 times
Reputation: 15904
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dopo View Post
So the North owned 10% of slaves in the country
You use that to say that the South owning 90% of slaves in the country is not evil
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dopo View Post
It wasn't abuse of power
It was as simple as good vs evil

Evil people (slave owners) in the South were losing millions of dollars (todays' money) when slaves ran away to the North.
Good people (anti-slavery people) in the North, refused to send slaves back to their evil owners.

But people keep on trying to re-write history to show people in the South as good people that "fought for their beliefs"
Hiding the fact that their beliefs is that any man, woman or children darker than a toast of bread can be sold as if it was cattle.
No....it was not; like a lot of the not-so-"liberals" here. Mr. Dopo elected not so much to re-write history, as to ignore it. he has fallen back to the shopworn SJW tactic of seeking the most blatant evil he can, and then demonizing all those who disagree with his viewpoint by linking them to that worst-case instance or example, just as with the current fad of portraying all those in rural area who don't subscribe to the Leftist manifesto as Klansmen or "white nationalists".

In his work Go Down Moses, Nobel laureate William Faulkner told a story of the McCaslin Brothers, two middle-aged twins who inherited a marginal plantation, including a contingent of slaves, from an ancestor, The land was worn out and the brothers had no option to move further west in search of better, land. but rather than selling the land and slaves, the "plantation", its owners, and its slaves continued to operate as a subsistence farm. Slaves who desired so were free to leave, but few did.

The story itself might have been fictional, but I don't doubt that many of those trapped among the ruins of the Kingdom of Cotton after 1865 had to turn to similar means to survive.

And many hardscrabble farmers in the North and West, even up to the time of the Great Depression, depended upon
sons and daughters, sometimes furloughed form factory work in town, to aid in raising a "cash crop" in return for food, a roof over their heads and, possibly, a small stipend. It was all the non-cash economy of those times could support.

Last edited by 2nd trick op; 04-09-2019 at 03:53 PM..
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Old 04-09-2019, 05:31 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
8,210 posts, read 2,869,843 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2nd trick op View Post
No....it was not; like a lot of the not-so-"liberals" here. Mr. Dopo elected not so much to re-write history, as to ignore it. he has fallen back to the shopworn SJW tactic of seeking the most blatant evil he can, and then demonizing all those who disagree with his viewpoint by linking them to that worst-case instance or example, just as with the current fad of portraying all those in rural area who don't subscribe to the Leftist manifesto as Klansmen or "white nationalists".
Let me see if I can phrase this clearly... what in the frakk are you talking about?

News flash: you are not the first person to figure out that most of the issues in the Civil War were murky and often contradictory, not - pardon the phrase - completely black and white. Gleefully pointing out contradictory statements, actions, events or situations as if that proves some great "SJW" conspiracy is... amateurish.

Besides, you forgot to get "snowflake" in there.
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Old 04-09-2019, 05:45 PM
 
Location: 912 feet above sea level
2,270 posts, read 871,199 times
Reputation: 12429
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quietude View Post
News flash: you are not the first person to figure out that most of the issues in the Civil War were murky and often contradictory, not - pardon the phrase - completely black and white. Gleefully pointing out contradictory statements, actions, events or situations as if that proves some great "SJW" conspiracy is... amateurish.
Let's be honest - abolition is the sort of social justice that those who see social justice as a scourge deeply resent.

He fancies himself a libertarian, yet regularly runs interference for slavers. But then, while there is a core of libertarians who actually walk the walk, in my experience most of those who self-apply the 'libertarian' label mean it only when talking about taxes and regulations. Beyond those issues, their libertarianism vanishes like a fart in a hurricane.
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Old 04-09-2019, 05:54 PM
 
1,589 posts, read 2,334,220 times
Reputation: 1820
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2nd trick op View Post
No....it was not; like a lot of the not-so-"liberals" here. Mr. Dopo elected not so much to re-write history, as to ignore it. he has fallen back to the shopworn SJW tactic of seeking the most blatant evil he can, and then demonizing all those who disagree with his viewpoint by linking them to that worst-case instance or example, just as with the current fad of portraying all those in rural area who don't subscribe to the Leftist manifesto as Klansmen or "white nationalists".

In his work Go Down Moses, Nobel laureate William Faulkner told a story of the McCaslin Brothers, two middle-aged twins who inherited a marginal plantation, including a contingent of slaves, from an ancestor, The land was worn out and the brothers had no option to move further west in search of better, land. but rather than selling the land and slaves, the "plantation", its owners, and its slaves continued to operate as a subsistence farm. Slaves who desired so were free to leave, but few did.

The story itself might have been fictional, but I don't doubt that many of those trapped among the ruins of the Kingdom of Cotton after 1865 had to turn to similar means to survive.

And many hardscrabble farmers in the North and West, even up to the time of the Great Depression, depended upon
sons and daughters, sometimes furloughed form factory work in town, to aid in raising a "cash crop" in return for food, a roof over their heads and, possibly, a small stipend. It was all the non-cash economy of those times could support.
Are you really trying to compare subsistence farming to slavery?
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Old 04-09-2019, 06:03 PM
 
3,331 posts, read 1,245,840 times
Reputation: 6475
yes.
it was.
every (single, one) philosophy (political/religious) does it.
the Reformation. the Reign of Terror. the Great Leap Forward.
it HAD to Happen and it WAS necessary.
here is a concise video about the "bad blood":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzWoKKzmtjc
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Old 04-09-2019, 06:37 PM
 
Location: Aurora Denveralis
8,210 posts, read 2,869,843 times
Reputation: 12274
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulsker 1856 View Post
Let's be honest - abolition is the sort of social justice that those who see social justice as a scourge deeply resent.
Oh, the stormfront clouds are pretty clearly visible, here, carefully camouflaged with lots of book cites.

Quote:
He fancies himself a libertarian, yet regularly runs interference for slavers. But then, while there is a core of libertarians who actually walk the walk, in my experience most of those who self-apply the 'libertarian' label mean it only when talking about taxes and regulations. Beyond those issues, their libertarianism vanishes like a fart in a hurricane.
"I want the freedom to grow rich, and you can have the freedom to starve." "Rules and laws are to keep you from interfering with my freedom." Etc. Yup.
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Old 04-10-2019, 04:57 AM
 
3,759 posts, read 3,487,643 times
Reputation: 8926
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dopo View Post
It wasn't abuse of power
It was as simple as good vs evil

Evil people (slave owners) in the South were losing millions of dollars (todays' money) when slaves ran away to the North.
Good people (anti-slavery people) in the North, refused to send slaves back to their evil owners.

But people keep on trying to re-write history to show people in the South as good people that "fought for their beliefs"
Hiding the fact that their beliefs is that any man, woman or children darker than a toast of bread can be sold as if it was cattle.
No one disputes that slavery was an evil thing, but most of the boys fighting for the Confederacy did not in fact come from slave owning households.
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Old 04-10-2019, 06:42 AM
 
1,426 posts, read 1,334,258 times
Reputation: 1110
Default Come on!

Quote:
Originally Posted by guidoLaMoto View Post
"He's a Civil War buff? I'd love to be a Civil War buff." --George Costanza


I'm not a Civil War buff either, but this Brexit negotiation got me to thinking-- The Southern States didn't negotiate. They just left. Other than ego & lust for power, why did The North feel such a need to go to war over it? If you invite a bad actor to your birthday party and he wants to leave, do you beat him up to make him stay?



Is any war necessary?
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