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Old 05-02-2019, 08:23 PM
 
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I know there were some public figures in USA who were opposed to going to war with Germany but in late 1941 most of them were willing to support the war against Germany. I know the attack on Pearl Harbor played a big part in the change, but did the earlier German invasion of Soviet Russia also play a part? There were Soviet communist spies and sympathizers in USA. prior to Germany’s invasion of Russia they had an agreement with Russia.
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Old 05-02-2019, 08:51 PM
509
 
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Read this book......about Joltin Joe and baseball in the summer of 41. Great book, that covers the hitting streak and day to day events in the history books.


https://www.amazon.com/Streak-Joe-DiMaggio-Summer-41/dp/0803292937#customerReviews



NOBODY in the US wanted to go to war in 1941.



I was surprised how split the country was between Germany and the Soviet Union. There was NO doubt that we were going to war on the side of Britain and the Soviet Union in 1941 in the minds of the Elites. However, the American people were NOT convinced in the summer of 41. It was Pearl Harbor that finally changed their minds.


Somebody should write a book about the New York Times and their role in history.



The New York Times protected the Soviet Union and they REFUSED to report the killing of 10 MILLION people in Ukraine by Stalin. See the section on Walter Duranty....half way down.



THEY KNEW...but refused to report. How can the murder of 10 MILLION people not be news. I guess for the New York Times....those 10 million lives were NOT important enough to even mention in their paper.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denial_of_the_Holodomor


1941 and WWII are interesting times in US and world history. I am not sure the truth will ever come out.


By the way.....Hitler was awful....the only people worse were Stalin and Mao.



I suspect the only person that got it right was......Patton.
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Old 05-03-2019, 12:00 AM
 
Location: London
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 509 View Post
It was Pearl Harbor that finally changed their minds.
And a whole host of other countries declaring war on the USA like Germany for one. The US spent six months attempting to get Romania and Bulgaria to rescind their war declarations.
Patton was a nobody colonel when the war erupted in 1939. Patton got very little right - just an average US general.
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Old 05-03-2019, 12:43 AM
 
Location: London
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If you implying that Patton wanted to attack the Soviets after defeating Germany, well no one would take any notice of an average US general who most German generals after WW2 had never heard of. Look up Churchill's Operation Unthinkable.
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Old 05-03-2019, 12:46 AM
 
Location: USA
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We were a very isolationist country after WWI. The British were pressuring FDR to get into the war, but he did not have the country behind that until Pearl Harbor. Everything changed after that.
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Old 05-03-2019, 03:37 AM
 
Location: Great Britain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot1 View Post
We were a very isolationist country after WWI. The British were pressuring FDR to get into the war, but he did not have the country behind that until Pearl Harbor. Everything changed after that.
Britain was often very isolationist in terms of historic periods regarding Europe, and no country wanted to fight a world war. The Germans tried to persuade Britain not to join both world wars and failed in both counts, as Britain was't going to allow the Germans to invade Europe in WW1 and was not prepared to stand back and watch the Nazi's take control of the world in terms of WW2.

Splendid isolation - Wikipedia

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Old 05-03-2019, 05:50 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 509 View Post
NOBODY in the US wanted to go to war in 1941.
This claim is vastly overstated. While it is quite true that the American populace as a whole opposed entering the war in 1941, it is hardly so that 'NOBODY' supported entry into the war.

Quote:
Gallup Poll
Interviewing Date 6/26-7/1/41

Should the United States enter the war now?
Yes - 21%
No - 79%
In other words, every fifth American supported immediate entry into the war on the part of the United States. It represents a definite minority opinion, but it also means that the average family dinner, the average workplace, the average street of homes, the average meeting of random American people contained one or more individuals who favored entering the war in the summer of 1941.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 509 View Post
I was surprised how split the country was between Germany and the Soviet Union. There was NO doubt that we were going to war on the side of Britain and the Soviet Union in 1941 in the minds of the Elites. However, the American people were NOT convinced in the summer of 41. It was Pearl Harbor that finally changed their minds.
The country was not even remotely split. It overwhelmingly supported the USSR against Germany.

Quote:
From the same poll as above:

In the present war between Germany and Russia, which side would you like to see win?
Germany - 4%
Russia - 72%
Source for both polls:
https://ibiblio.org/pha/Gallup/Gallup%201941.htm

Quote:
Originally Posted by 509 View Post
By the way.....Hitler was awful....the only people worse were Stalin and Mao.

I suspect the only person that got it right was......Patton.
Patton was brilliant within a certain range of military applications. When it came to geopolitical considerations, he was utterly clueless. He possessed exceptional tactical skills and almost nothing in the way of strategic judgments. The best example is Patton's notion that with the defeat of Germany, the war should be continued - against Russia. This idea can only be described as utterly idiotic, for a litany of reasons: the Western allies were counting on Soviet assistance in the war against Japan (and it is very unlikely that Japan would have thrown in the towel in 1945 had the U.S./UK gone to war against the USSR), the military forces simply were not there, neither the American public nor that of the UK would have stood for it, and numerous others.

Your mistake is in embracing the myth that World War II was prosecuted because of 'good' and 'bad'. It wasn't. It was entirely about what served the interests of the warring powers. The West could live with the USSR because Stalin could be deterred. Hitler could not. Stalin prioritized his own power and existence over expansion. Hitler did not.
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Old 05-03-2019, 07:35 AM
 
Location: Arizona
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John-UK View Post
And a whole host of other countries declaring war on the USA like Germany for one. The US spent six months attempting to get Romania and Bulgaria to rescind their war declarations.
Patton was a nobody colonel when the war erupted in 1939. Patton got very little right - just an average US general.
All (except for Marshall) of the American generals were nobody colonels (and lower) in 1939. MacArthur was retired.
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Old 05-03-2019, 07:42 AM
 
Location: Shawnee-on-Delaware, PA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by victimofGM View Post
...most of them were willing to support the war against Germany. I know the attack on Pearl Harbor played a big part in the change, but did the earlier German invasion of Soviet Russia also play a part?

The attack on Pearl Harbor certainly galvanized almost 100% of Americans in favor of war. Germany and Italy declared war on the United States on December 9, 1941 making US involvement in Europe a foregone conclusion.


Incidentally the vote to go to war with Japan was 82-0 in the Senate but only 388-1 in the House. The lone vote against war was cast by Montana Republican Jeanette Rankin, an Suffragette and avowed pacifist who stated "As a woman, I cannot go to war and I refuse to send anyone else." She faced heavy pressure to change her vote or at least abstain but she stuck to her guns, so to speak.
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Old 05-03-2019, 09:20 AM
 
11,978 posts, read 17,489,276 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtab4994 View Post
The attack on Pearl Harbor certainly galvanized almost 100% of Americans in favor of war. Germany and Italy declared war on the United States on December 9, 1941 making US involvement in Europe a foregone conclusion.


Incidentally the vote to go to war with Japan was 82-0 in the Senate but only 388-1 in the House. The lone vote against war was cast by Montana Republican Jeanette Rankin, an Suffragette and avowed pacifist who stated "As a woman, I cannot go to war and I refuse to send anyone else." She faced heavy pressure to change her vote or at least abstain but she stuck to her guns, so to speak.
Must say I have sometimes wondered about the lone holdout.
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