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Old 06-17-2019, 11:37 PM
 
Location: Montgomery County, PA
14,639 posts, read 9,697,151 times
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WW2 has often remembered as the last war the US won. All others, up to and including Iraq and Afghanistan, have been either failure or ended in some kind of stalemate, all at great human losses. What if we didn't go into Korea, Vietnam, Beirut, Granada and on and on? Would the world look much different? Heck, my shirts are made in Vietnam. Did we have to lose 55,000 Americans plus a million Vietnamese to buy shirts from them?
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Old 06-18-2019, 12:29 AM
 
Location: San José, CA
3,264 posts, read 5,781,014 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyRider View Post
WW2 has often remembered as the last war the US won. All others, up to and including Iraq and Afghanistan, have been either failure or ended in some kind of stalemate, all at great human losses. What if we didn't go into Korea, Vietnam, Beirut, Granada and on and on? Would the world look much different? Heck, my shirts are made in Vietnam. Did we have to lose 55,000 Americans plus a million Vietnamese to buy shirts from them?
We would certainly have far more respect around the world today. Our top military stock investors wouldn't have amassed nearly the amount of generational wealth that they have thus far, but domestically, we would likely have a greater budget for necessary social items such as: medicare, social security, and probably at this point, a single-payer medical plan for the lower and middle classes.

What's great about non-interventionist policies is that they don't force you into unnecessary wars later. By not removing Mossadegh from power in 1953, we are less likely to be conjuring up ideas of war against Iran today.

Without arming Saddam and Iran in the 1980s, we are less likely to have needed to remove Saddam from power, or again, to be conjuring up ideas of war against Iran today.

This is to say nothing of the humanity lost. ie. had we never removed Allende from power, we would have never left Pinochet to destroy the livelihoods of innocents in Chile.

If not for the failed Bay of Pigs invasion, there may be no embargo upon Cuba.

If not for a gross misunderstanding of Vietnam, more bombs than we dropped during WWII wouldn't have fell on Laos.

If not for Operation Cyclone, we may have never needed to conjure up wars against the Taliban in Afghanistan. Or, in conjunction with our continuous meddling and support of Israel's enslavement of the Palestinians, it's also possible that we would instead remember September 11th as the day Ford introduced the Pinto.

I think it's incalculable the damage that U.S. modern imperialism has had on our modern globe, but without us, I'm sure that vacuum of power would also be filled with a few lesser evils, so I'm not entirely sure just how much nicer global politics would look today, but I'd have a hard-time believing it would be worse.
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Old 06-18-2019, 12:48 AM
 
5,097 posts, read 2,482,126 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyRider View Post
WW2 has often remembered as the last war the US won. All others, up to and including Iraq and Afghanistan, have been either failure or ended in some kind of stalemate, all at great human losses. What if we didn't go into Korea, Vietnam, Beirut, Granada and on and on? Would the world look much different? Heck, my shirts are made in Vietnam. Did we have to lose 55,000 Americans plus a million Vietnamese to buy shirts from them?
Sometimes, there's no option. In the last couple of days, many countries in SA were without power. That's a well known war act/tactic (did Venezuela put USA on notice?). War is not necessarily something that happens in the sky, sometimes electricity is used for leverage - especially when treaties break down North (Canada), South (South America) and Center (USA). In this next war, it looks like Venezuela is not going to capitulate so easily. Trump also poked a stick at Cuba, demanding that confiscated colonialist lands be returned to oppressors. What a ludicrous idea!

The USA could not avoid Civil War.

The question at the time of world wars was territory.

Russia recently took over the Ukraine as a territory. The weakness was that the pipeline to the west ran through the Ukraine, so Russia could shut off the West at anytime. It was better to let the Ukraine return to the USSR and Russia and keep the heat on.

WW2 was the war to end all wars, but it didn't. The idea was that people were newly intelligent and sophisticated and they could negotiate going forward. Not so when lunatics occupy the roost.
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Old 06-18-2019, 03:51 AM
 
9,870 posts, read 8,158,454 times
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Korea was a UN sanctioned war. If USA had stayed out then there would be one Korea and it most likely would either look like North Korea or would still have pockets of combat armed resistance fighting to be free from communist dictator.

JFK & LBJ should have stayed out of Vietnam

Bosnia/Kosovo was a flop while under UN control but got better when USA took control. Once again it was an internal problem among people who lived side by side for centuries.

The first gulf war was sanctioned by the UN as it was one nation invading and laying claim over another nation. Neither country were wholly innocent. I suspect Saudi Arabian oil and money played a part in the decision for the UN to take action.

Personally wish USA had stayed out of the above wars. With Afghanistan we were directly attacked again by a terrorist organization based there and something needed to be done. With Iraq, various countries’ intelligence agencies all believed Saddam still had chemical and biological weapons and he had in the past supported terrorist organizations so based upon the information available it was justified to go into Iraq. It wasn’t until later that the truth was discovered. Even then though, before the start of the Iraq invasion there were reports of large vehicles possibly moving chemical weapons to Syria. People outright dismissed those reports and yet with this uprising in Syria we have reports of chemical weapons being used on people in the streets.
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Old 06-18-2019, 04:14 AM
 
12,258 posts, read 18,390,529 times
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Yeah it's more complex than saying "No more war" as a blanket statement. The US is a world leader and projects power via military might. We can't always play Monday morning quarterback and say this or that war was wrong because we are missing an important piece - what would have happened if we didn't take military action? It's all speculation.

Not talking about any war specifically, each is a unique case and you already have people discussing Iraq and Vietnam (which will take this thread into all sorts of different directions and result in a chaotic thread that spins out of control) but in general if the US is not willing to use it's military might it would simply be a paper tiger - ineffective, indecisive, impotent. The results would be disastrous for the interests of this country - loss of respect, loss of integrity, loss of power.
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Old 06-18-2019, 04:42 AM
 
12,258 posts, read 18,390,529 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyRider View Post
Heck, my shirts are made in Vietnam. Did we have to lose 55,000 Americans plus a million Vietnamese to buy shirts from them?
And a quick note on the above - your shirts are made in Vietnam, Germany who we've had two wars with is now an ally and major trading partner, likewise Japan, Italy, even UK who we've had two wars with, and on and on. There is an argument for the righteousness of a war, current relations are not part of that argument.
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Old 06-18-2019, 05:52 AM
 
Location: WV and Eastport, ME
11,173 posts, read 10,989,569 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
And a quick note on the above - your shirts are made in Vietnam, Germany who we've had two wars with is now an ally and major trading partner, likewise Japan, Italy, even UK who we've had two wars with, and on and on. There is an argument for the righteousness of a war, current relations are not part of that argument.
That's right. Not only are current events not part of that argument, current events don't even belong in this forum.

Everyone, please keep your posts focused on History and not on Current Events. (We have a forum for Current Events.
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Old 06-18-2019, 06:40 AM
 
Location: Texas
35,209 posts, read 19,266,750 times
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Lightbulb This site needs a "What if?" forum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyRider View Post
What if the US had avoided all post WW2 wars?
Some things would be different, others would be the same.

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Old 06-18-2019, 10:01 AM
 
2,330 posts, read 1,346,625 times
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many of these were proxy wars
usa vs Russia...
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Old 06-18-2019, 11:17 AM
DKM
 
Location: Thousand Oaks, CA
2,817 posts, read 1,003,285 times
Reputation: 2847
South Korea would have about half as many people and my Korean friends would not even exist.

Communism likely would have spread further than Vietnam, killing far more people than the war there did.

Saddam or his sons would still be killing, in control of Kuwait and likely would have started a larger war in the ME.

Its hard to say really what other wars would have occurred if we just "stayed out". I am surprised at the number of people ignorant to the stability the US has brought to the world since 1945.
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