U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > History
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-24-2019, 07:09 PM
 
Location: Ohio
19,928 posts, read 14,242,533 times
Reputation: 16105

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbioman23 View Post
If European explorers never settled in America, what would of happened throughout the course of history as a result? What would of happened in terms of the spread of democracy, industrial revolution, rise of nationalism, world wars, and spread of communism? I know that America and none of us Americans would be existing right now, but try to look at all of the other aspects as well.
In North America, nothing would have happened very slowly.

If you would come to North America now, you'd see primitive peoples living in teepees and wigwams hunting with spears and bows and arrows.

North America is just too expansive and there's no one here. There are no pressures whatsoever, least of all population pressures and without population pressures there's no change.

In Europe, Portugal and Spain would have collapsed earlier than they did.

Would Napoleon have come round? I think so. His existence and acts aren't dependent on the existence of the US.

Would you have democracy?

No.

You still had monarchies in the 20th Century. The only reason the monarchies stepped aside is due to pressure from the US after WW I.

And you still would have had a WW I.

The British and French were chaffing at the expansion of Germany. The Germans had colonies in Africa and China and the British and French were totally infuriated, because that meant less spoils for them.

And with colonies comes not just a larger merchant fleet to support the colonies, it requires a larger naval force not just to protect the merchant fleet, but also to push your hegemony on your colonies.

As the German navy expanded, the Brits and French were just totally livid.

That's why the Treaty of Versailles was so harsh. The whole point was to put the Germans down and keep them down so they could never compete against France and Britain, who gleefully took over all of Germany's colonies in Africa and Asia (although the US took over Germany's colonies in China).

The industrial revolution still would have happened.

Nationalism had nothing to do with the US and everything to do with supra-tribes coalescing into nation-States, which is what Vienna was all about.

Communism had nothing to do with the US, either.

Karl Marx is still going to write his book. The Germans are still going to ship Lenin to Russia to get Russia out of the war.

As far as the spread of communism, the imbecile Churchill did that.

At the end of WW II, my grandfather's unit was sitting in Czechoslovakia. The Soviets didn't force them to leave, Churchill did.

The Romanians and Bulgarians did not elect Churchill as their president, but he gave them away to Stalin.

If it wasn't for the idiot Eisenhower, the US would have taken Berlin before the Soviets got into Germany.

Even so, if the US and Brits had turned on the Soviets, the war would have ended in 30-60 days.

The US had 5 years of supplies sitting in France. That's 5 years worth of weapons, ammunition, food, medical supplies, quartermaster supplies, vehicle and aircraft parts and fuel for every vehicle and aircraft in the ETO.

The US could have continued the war for another 5 years without a single shipment from the US.

Do you have any idea how many rivers are in Poland?

32. That's thirty-two.

And those are just the rivers that are 100 miles or longer.

Use B-17s to bomb marshaling areas and supply depots; B-24s and B-25s to hit bridges across rivers; and B-29s to pull a Dresden/Tokyo on 4 or 5 Soviet cities and it's game over in 30 days.

30 days could have saved the World 30+ years of problems.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-24-2019, 10:59 PM
 
Location: Upper Left Hand Corner
2,568 posts, read 960,743 times
Reputation: 4189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
If it wasn't for the idiot Eisenhower, the US would have taken Berlin before the Soviets got into Germany.

Even so, if the US and Brits had turned on the Soviets, the war would have ended in 30-60 days.

The US had 5 years of supplies sitting in France. That's 5 years worth of weapons, ammunition, food, medical supplies, quartermaster supplies, vehicle and aircraft parts and fuel for every vehicle and aircraft in the ETO.

The US could have continued the war for another 5 years without a single shipment from the US.
How did the US, and Eisenhower sneak in here? I thought this was supposed to be without the US as we know it today. It wouldn't be existing because the Europeans hadn't settle it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-25-2019, 01:35 AM
 
Location: Seattle WA, USA
3,945 posts, read 2,220,538 times
Reputation: 2611
I donít think the OP is asking if the Europeans never discovered or conquered the Americas, rather if they never settled in large numbers and colonized the Americas in a similar way to that of Africa and Asia, meaning the local cultures and people survive for the most part.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-25-2019, 01:37 AM
 
Location: Upper Left Hand Corner
2,568 posts, read 960,743 times
Reputation: 4189
Quote:
Originally Posted by grega94 View Post
I donít think the OP is asking if the Europeans never discovered or conquered the Americas, rather if they never settled in large numbers and colonized the Americas in a similar way to that of Africa and Asia, meaning the local cultures and people survive for the most part.

If European explorers >>>never settled in America<<<, what would of happened?"
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-25-2019, 02:03 AM
 
Location: Seattle WA, USA
3,945 posts, read 2,220,538 times
Reputation: 2611
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlulu23 View Post
If European explorers >>>never settled in America<<<, what would of happened?"
It’s hard to say but I guess Peru and Bolivia would be good examples of what would happen considering their large native populations and small white population. So the rest of the continent would operate and behave similarly to Peru and Bolivia. So the US, or at least whatever the 13 colonies turn into would speak English and be dominated by English culture and customs, but the population make up would only be about 5% white while the rest would be mixed or entirely native, and because of that the old native culture would still be felt and many rural people would still speak the native tongue. As for areas further inland it depends on how much contact they would have with white traders. Also one of these post colonial coastal countries would end expanding further inland and assimilate the natives. That being said The Americas would probably not be a center of democracy or freedom, or at least not in the way The current US has impacted the continent and the world, so monarchies would stay in power longer in Europe, but eventually there would be some sort of French Revolution somewhere.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-25-2019, 07:52 AM
 
Location: Outside US
1,211 posts, read 481,065 times
Reputation: 1581
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbioman23 View Post
If European explorers never settled in America, what would of happened throughout the course of history as a result? What would of happened in terms of the spread of democracy, industrial revolution, rise of nationalism, world wars, and spread of communism? I know that America and none of us Americans would be existing right now, but try to look at all of the other aspects as well.
Likely a third world Latin country.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-25-2019, 09:20 AM
 
717 posts, read 437,651 times
Reputation: 793
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlulu23 View Post
What would have happened?

Somebody else would have eventually taken it over. It was only a matter of time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlulu23 View Post
The Vikings would have returned.

Or the Russians would have continued colonizing it.

Who knows.
I see what you did there.

I approve.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-25-2019, 10:30 AM
 
985 posts, read 525,533 times
Reputation: 2146
Wow... almost every post in this thread is awful.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
In North America, nothing would have happened very slowly.

If you would come to North America now, you'd see primitive peoples living in teepees and wigwams hunting with spears and bows and arrows.

North America is just too expansive and there's no one here. There are no pressures whatsoever, least of all population pressures and without population pressures there's no change.
This is incorrect, prior to European contact there were several large agricultural population centers in the Americas. Most notably the Mississippians (Mound Builders) and the Pueblo. If you read the early accounts of Hernan de Soto's exploration of the American south west he does not describe hunter gatherers living in teepees throwing spears but rather highly populated agricultural towns and cities. Archaeology has also substantiated these accounts finding evidence not only of farming but of metalworking, food storage, pottery, art etc. It is currently believed that these civilizations collapsed into hunter gatherer societies due to the introduction of European diseases.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
Would Napoleon have come round? I think so. His existence and acts aren't dependent on the existence of the US.

Would you have democracy?

No.
Wait... You think that there wouldn't have been a Republican/Democratic Revolution in France but somehow the Napoleonic era would exist? WHAT?

You could make an argument that the seeds of democracy were already planted in Europe during the enlightenment or that America was necessary to inspire the European Revolutions... but you can't have both.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
You still had monarchies in the 20th Century. The only reason the monarchies stepped aside is due to pressure from the US after WW I.
You still had some monarchies but there had already been experiments with Democracy prior in many areas of Europe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
And you still would have had a WW I.

The British and French were chaffing at the expansion of Germany. The Germans had colonies in Africa and China and the British and French were totally infuriated, because that meant less spoils for them.

And with colonies comes not just a larger merchant fleet to support the colonies, it requires a larger naval force not just to protect the merchant fleet, but also to push your hegemony on your colonies.

As the German navy expanded, the Brits and French were just totally livid.

That's why the Treaty of Versailles was so harsh. The whole point was to put the Germans down and keep them down so they could never compete against France and Britain, who gleefully took over all of Germany's colonies in Africa and Asia (although the US took over Germany's colonies in China).
You have no idea if the Germans would have colonized Africa if America weren't colonized. Perhaps rather than colonizing the Americas France and England would have focused on Africa instead, they certainly had the head start over Germany (a country that didn't even exist when they began their colonization efforts).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-25-2019, 12:51 PM
 
Location: Upper Left Hand Corner
2,568 posts, read 960,743 times
Reputation: 4189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyers Girl View Post
I see what you did there.

I approve.
Thank you. Did I do something right for a change, lol. I guess I should have said

The Vikings may have returned.

Or the Russians may have continued colonizing it. Instead of "would have" since I'm just guessing, sorry.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-25-2019, 03:09 PM
 
Location: Ohio
19,928 posts, read 14,242,533 times
Reputation: 16105
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlulu23 View Post
How did the US, and Eisenhower sneak in here? I thought this was supposed to be without the US as we know it today. It wouldn't be existing because the Europeans hadn't settle it.
The US and Britain allowed communism to expand. If the US did not exist, it's unlikely Churchill would have given away Eastern Europe just like he did.

Right? Because Britain would need Eastern Europe, since the US does not exist, and there's no large pit-bull to back or support Britain.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > History
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top