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Old Today, 12:53 PM
 
Location: London
4,360 posts, read 3,647,052 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
Also of note is how many American volunteers enlisted to fight the Germans before America officially joined the war. For example - the RAF also had no less that 3 fighter squadrons filled by Americans, called "the Eagle Squadrons", in 1940. Many Americans also enlisted with Canadian outfits.
The men in the Eagle squadron were in the RAF. When the US came into the war they offered them the option to join the USAAF - the US wanted them as they were very experienced, unlike the USAAF pilots. Most said yes, not all, insisting they take their Spitfires with them as a condition, not wanting to fly the current front line US fighters. They did. The British provided around 400 Spitfires to the USAAF

 
Old Today, 01:05 PM
 
12,257 posts, read 18,390,529 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John-UK View Post
The men in the Eagle squadron were in the RAF. When the US came into the war they offered them the option to join the USAAF - the US wanted them as they were very experienced, unlike the USAAF pilots. Most said yes, not all, insisting they take their Spitfires with them as a condition, not wanting to fly the current front line US fighters. They did. The British provided around 400 Spitfires to the USAAF
You are leaving a few things out - they flew the spitfires, an excellent fighter for that short time but limited in its use, until the more adaptable and longer range American P47 Thunderbolts became available in 1943 (also used by UK). Then later they switched to P51 Mustangs.
 
Old Today, 01:07 PM
 
Location: London
4,360 posts, read 3,647,052 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bus man View Post
What the OP's first chart shows us is how long each of the major allied combatants had to shoulder the load of the fighting. That's all. It says nothing about the size of their contribution, or its effectiveness. (The second chart does show the size of each of the allies' manpower contributions.)
It looks like less than half of the USAs over 12 million in uniform were outside of the USA.
 
Old Today, 01:11 PM
 
Location: London
4,360 posts, read 3,647,052 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
You are leaving a few things out - they flew the spitfires, an excellent fighter for that short time but limited in its use, until the more adaptable and longer range American P47 Thunderbolts became available in 1943 (also used by UK). Then later they switched to P51 Mustangs.
At the time of the transfer of the RAF men to the USAAF, the USA front line fighters were no match for a FW or 109, the Spitfires were more than a match.

The USA went over wanting to use P40s and P39s in 1942, the British told them not to use them against the Germans offering them Spitfires and pilots. They wisely took them.

You need to read about the Spitfire which went up to Mk 14. It was improved all along, even being fitted with the more powerful RR Merlin replacement the RR Griffon, being a formidable plane all through WW2, as Japanese Zero pilots found out in 1945

Last edited by John-UK; Today at 02:40 PM..
 
Old Today, 01:43 PM
 
Location: Howard County, Maryland
5,654 posts, read 3,638,226 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John-UK View Post
I knew someone would come back with the mythical Hollywood version of history, ignoring raw facts. The small British force was evacuated from France as the large French army capitulated. An organised retreat. The Germans never kicked any British arses, but the Luftwaffe had its arse kicked over Dunkirk by the RAF. They lost more planes. The German Navy had its arse kicked in Norway with most of its surface fleet sunk or disabled and in the Channel at Dunkirk. This wonderful German army spent just under 2 years trying to wipe out the British Army in Africa, but failed, with 250,000 Axis prisoners taken, more than taken at Stalingrad.

Best look at the timeline of WW2.
The bolded would be news to the 3,500 British soldiers who were killed at Dunkirk, not to mention the 13,000 wounded. And I suppose that the loss of six Royal Navy destroyers and 145 RAF planes was no big deal, either.

While there's no denying that the Dunkirk evacuation was an unexpected success, it did not come without cost.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunkir...ion#Casualties
 
Old Today, 01:50 PM
 
Location: San Jose
2,107 posts, read 640,252 times
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The Nazis lost roughly 7x more men fighting the Soviets then they did fighting all other western allies combined.
 
Old Today, 01:58 PM
 
Location: London
4,360 posts, read 3,647,052 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bus man View Post
The bolded would be news to the 3,500 British soldiers who were killed at Dunkirk, not to mention the 13,000 wounded. And I suppose that the loss of six Royal Navy destroyers and 145 RAF planes was no big deal, either.
You were right, they were no big deal considering the numbers they had. Six small RN ships was literally nothing to the size of the navy. 145 fighters was less than what the Lufwaffe suffered, as they lost the air battle. Then after Dunkirk what great things did the Germans do? Er, er, er, well Crete, which was a phyric victory, for a strategically unimportant island. The RN still freely sailed around the Eastern Med, with half of the elite German paras wiped out, so much the Germans never used the paras again in mass operations, with the para regiment pretty well partially being abandoned as an airborne force. The cost for taking such an island was too great with them knowing it. Many German generals said do not invade, just leave the British there.

I know this thread would descend to this level, educational to many of you as it is. The point is the figures in post 1, not Hollywood history.

Last edited by John-UK; Today at 02:07 PM..
 
Old Today, 02:04 PM
 
Location: London
4,360 posts, read 3,647,052 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenFresno View Post
The Nazis lost roughly 7x more men fighting the Soviets then they did fighting all other western allies combined.
The Axis army and Red Army were massed continental armies. Both with continual supply lines back to their mother countries. Unlike the British and Americans. The bigger the armies the more the losses.
 
Old Today, 02:08 PM
 
Location: San Jose
2,107 posts, read 640,252 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John-UK View Post
The Axis army and Red Army were massed continental armies. Both with continual supply lines back to their mother countries. Unlike the British and Americans. The bigger the armies the more the losses.
The real war was on the Eastern Front between the Nazis and Soviets. Whatever was happening on the Western Front was nothing more then a sideshow.
 
Old Today, 02:30 PM
 
Location: London
4,360 posts, read 3,647,052 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenFresno View Post
The real war was on the Eastern Front between the Nazis and Soviets. Whatever was happening on the Western Front was nothing more then a sideshow.
Firstly, the Soviets were so bad they lost an amazing amount of men. Two large armies fighting will naturally suffer heavy casualties, that does not mean other theatres are not relevant. The western air bombing made a considerable impact on the Axis war machine, as did the Royal Navy blockade of Axis countries. In May 1941 the Italian navy told the Germans it could not put to sea unless they gave them some oil, of which the Germans were short of. The North Africa campaign kept a lot of Axis troops away from the Soviets.

North Africa was no side show, if it was the Germans would not have committed so many men. They wanted the Middle East with the Suez Canal giving a link to the rest of the world and the Japanese, and its oil desperately. Once the Med was circled and an Axis lake, the war was won for them. They seize the Straights of Gibraltar, then the resources from the rest of the world, which was cut off to them, can enter Axis countries via the Med - they then control both entrances to the Med, which the British did.

WW2 was not just about two large armies locking horns, suffering large casualties. An economic war is just as effective.
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