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Old 07-31-2019, 07:34 AM
 
5,405 posts, read 2,871,100 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
This is going to be a contentious topic for sure. Yikes. Good luck on getting it to survive.
Their is no easy answer except that race is an extremely political and polarizing topic in the US.

But you mention a symbol, a flag - The Union Jack. The confederate flag was actually used as the battle flag of the confederacy, not the national flag of the CSA. The actual national flag was a version of the stars and bars, later indeed incorporating the battle flag. The problem of course is recent racist group have hijacked the battle flag and taken it on to represent there crazy causes of hate. But one must ask these questions:

So it begs the question, why are not other battle flags given the same consideration? Why does the German battle flag/symbol, the Balkenkreuz used in WWII and displayed on Stuka dive bombers and Tiger tanks still survive today? The Nazi swastika of course is forbidden, but the actual battle symbol is still in use today and holds no reservation:



And why is the Rising Sun, associated with the Imperial Japanese Army and it's atrocities and responsibility of 11 million civilian deaths in WW2, still in use?
Because the Japanese killed mostly Chinese and other Asia Pacific civilians which donít register to the same effect as Nazis killing Jews and other people that we see in Western Civilization.

Also Chairman Mao and Stalin are heroes to many on the far left of the US without any regard to the millions that they starved and killed during their regimes.
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Old 07-31-2019, 02:26 PM
 
12,467 posts, read 18,556,530 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SWFL_Native View Post
Because the Japanese killed mostly Chinese and other Asia Pacific civilians which don’t register to the same effect as Nazis killing Jews and other people that we see in Western Civilization.

Also Chairman Mao and Stalin are heroes to many on the far left of the US without any regard to the millions that they starved and killed during their regimes.
Yes certainly that's why you can raise a Rising Sun flag in an American or European neighborhood and get only curious stares.
It does get negative attention in Asia however:

https://japantoday.com/category/nati...on-school-test

As usual, except for one Japanese leader that pointed out the issue, Japan be like "I don't see what the problem is, yeah we murdered 11 million Asians, so what...". To there credit it did involve some internal debate it appears.

USSR and other communist leaders that same thing. Just be glad we don't see those clueless idiots in Che Guevara Tshirts anymore. Talk about an offensive symbol.

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Old 08-07-2019, 02:12 PM
 
8,111 posts, read 3,282,335 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
Dd714...

I don't think that the people flying Confederate banners are making the distinctions you raise. I suspect that most aren't even aware of the battlefield/political split.
Probably not, but neither are the people who hate Confederate banners for the same reasons.

I remember seeing a truck with a Confederate battle flag sticker in the rear window in Georgia. The driver was a black guy. I'm sure it was probably a very confusing sight to someone from Seattle or Boston.

For some it symbolizes the South as a region. For others, it represents the idea of rebellion (similar to the popular pirate flag motive today). For some, it's a way to take the flag from hate groups (it's harder for Klansman to intimidate black people with a Confederate flag if they're wearing it themselves). It could just be a middle finger to the establishment and pollical correctness (similar to Sid Vicious wearing a Nazi swastika shirt). Or the guy could have just borrowed somebody else's truck. Whatever. Life's much easier if people stop trying to make everything mean something.
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Old 08-07-2019, 02:21 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
41,675 posts, read 18,736,654 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy100 View Post
Life's much easier if people stop trying to make everything mean something.
Life is also easier when people do not deliberately choose to make a public display which they know will be racially offensive to others.

I don't buy the argument that the burden is on people to not be offended by something they find offensive. The logical extension of that is that everything is okay and no one should ever complain about anything.
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Old 08-07-2019, 02:33 PM
 
Location: NW Nevada
14,484 posts, read 11,755,689 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topher5150 View Post
I wasn't sure where exactly to post this, or if this has been covered before, but here I go.
Seems like lately that there has been a lot of controversy about monuments, statues, and other early pre abolitionist era Americana. This got me thinking the British empire had dominated the African slave trade, and colonized most of the world for hundreds of years along with other countries to a lesser degree. So why doesn't it seem that there is similar attitudes between the two?

Truth be known the military still uses the Confederate battle flag in division insignia. They also use the Gadsden in both Naval and land force trim. The US military uses a lot of Confederate insignia. I used to work for an Army contractor. I got in trouble because I was wearing my jean jacket that had in image of three Confederate soldiers on it. One was holding the battle flag.


I had been wearing that same jacket there for years. I wound up in HR accused of being a racist. Two days later we had a change of command. Right there in the flag array was the Confederate battle flag in true form and incorporated into other flags. Oh yea.I brought it up. That just pi$$ed me off.


I knew who had whined about my jacket. I made sure I brought up that CoC flag array loudly where she could hear me. With my supervisor who wrote me up for my jacket. The write up went away.
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Old 08-08-2019, 01:29 PM
 
8,111 posts, read 3,282,335 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
Life is also easier when people do not deliberately choose to make a public display which they know will be racially offensive to others.

I don't buy the argument that the burden is on people to not be offended by something they find offensive. The logical extension of that is that everything is okay and no one should ever complain about anything.
If you chose to be offended (being offended is a choice) then you have the problem.
If somebody knows you're offended by it and choses to display it just to spite you, that's a problem you brought on yourself. Hateful people aren't going to cease to exist just because you made your feelings widely known, but you will give them some ammunition to further offend you.

If you chose to generalize everybody who displays something, then that's just bigotry and ignorance.

If you chose to get offended on somebody else's behalf, then that's just retarded.
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Old 08-08-2019, 01:33 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
41,675 posts, read 18,736,654 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy100 View Post

If you chose to get offended on somebody else's behalf, then that's just retarded.
As in the northerners who were offended by slavery? Or those who were offended by the Nazis racial policies? All of them were retarded?

Okay, well you have provided us with a sample of your thinking.
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Old 08-08-2019, 07:56 PM
 
8,111 posts, read 3,282,335 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
As in the northerners who were offended by slavery? Or those who were offended by the Nazis racial policies? All of them were retarded?

Okay, well you have provided us with a sample of your thinking.
You thought we fought those wars over racism? You have provided us with a sample of your lack of history knowledge.

It must be terribly exhausting being offended all day.
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Old 08-08-2019, 08:42 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
41,675 posts, read 18,736,654 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy100 View Post
You thought we fought those wars over racism? You have provided us with a sample of your lack of history knowledge.

It must be terribly exhausting being offended all day.
I of course made no such statement, I wrote that there were Northerners offended by slavery and that there were people offended by Nazi racial policies, and indeed there were. You read this and in your mind it said "The Civil War and WW II were over racism?" I suppose you decided to see that as what was being said because it was far easier for you to argue against a position not taken than coming up with a viable response to what I actually wrote.

There is substance, and then there is attitude. I'm uninterested in attitude.
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Old 08-09-2019, 07:40 AM
 
8,111 posts, read 3,282,335 times
Reputation: 5593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
I of course made no such statement, I wrote that there were Northerners offended by slavery and that there were people offended by Nazi racial policies, and indeed there were. You read this and in your mind it said "The Civil War and WW II were over racism?" I suppose you decided to see that as what was being said because it was far easier for you to argue against a position not taken than coming up with a viable response to what I actually wrote.

There is substance, and then there is attitude. I'm uninterested in attitude.
Iím sure there are people who were offended by racist/colonial policies of the British or any other power. If they are offended by the British flag thatís their problem. There are several reasons people fly Confederate flags. Cherry picking the one reason to be offended about is just an excuse to be a victim.
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