U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > History
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-06-2019, 04:00 PM
 
3,820 posts, read 1,491,112 times
Reputation: 7469

Advertisements

every-D-thing above or below ground, on the ocean and beneath, was a military target to every side.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-06-2019, 04:16 PM
 
Location: Eastern Washington
14,351 posts, read 45,137,365 times
Reputation: 13043
Quote:
Originally Posted by bus man View Post
By August 5, 1945, we had fire-bombed more than 60 Japanese cities, including Tokyo, leaving them in smoking ruins. We had sunk almost all of their capital ships and most of their smaller ships as well. We had severed the sea links between the home islands and their captured territories, bringing shipments of oil and coal to a standstill. We had cut off millions of their soldiers, leaving them stranded on island outposts. Japan's ability to undertake any military action other than suicidal defense was nearly gone. And, perhaps most ominously, starvation was already beginning to rear its ugly head -- and with it, the horrifying possibility that MILLIONS of Japanese civilians might have died.

By any objective measure, Japan had been completely defeated by August 5, 1945. And yet, they had not surrendered by this time. Nor had they surrendered when the sun came up on August 6th. Absent the atomic bombs, what makes you think they would have surrendered on that day, or the next one, or any time?

Read Paul Fussel's "Thank God for the Atomic Bomb" (it's short and easy to find online) and you will learn that the Japanese had concrete plans to fight to the last man. Apparently the atomic bombings changed those plans.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-06-2019, 07:53 PM
 
680 posts, read 201,710 times
Reputation: 2445
And it almost goes without saying, if Japan (or Germany) had developed ANY weapon of mass destruction, including bio-weapons, they would have used them against the U.S. in a Nippon heartbeat. They tried to set the western forests of America on fire with incendiary balloons, for Pete's sake, how's that for random targeting? The only reason the Japanese military didn't burn Seattle or San Francisco to the ground, was because they lacked the resources, they certainly didn't lack the will. Yes, the atomic bombs saved lives on both sides. But to end that war, the U.S. was justified to use them regardless. OP, please stop trying to judge historical decisions through modern eyes, it simply does not work. Harry S. Truman made the correct choice. You should get down on your knees every day and thank whatever God you pray to, for Chester Nimitz, Douglas MacArthur, Winston Churchill, George Patton, Franklin Roosevelt, Admiral Halsey, Paul Tibbets, and all the rest, let alone the half million Americans, twenty million Russians, twenty million Chinese, six million Poles, six million Jews, six million Greeks, and millions of others killed in that awful war - started, by the way, by the Germans and Japanese.

Much better to spend your efforts trying to prevent the next one. Good Luck with that.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-06-2019, 10:33 PM
 
9,559 posts, read 6,349,739 times
Reputation: 17977
Quote:
Originally Posted by SterkIjon View Post
Despite Hiroshima on Aug 6
Despite Nagasaki on Aug 9
Despite the threats of resumtion of conventional bombing

It still took 5 days for Japan to surrender and the vote to surrender was a tie 3-3
The Emperor, who had no vote, had to urge the 3 dissenting generals to re-consider.

To those that say Japan would have surrendered w/o dropping the nuclear bomb...NO WAY !



If the two bombs weren't dropped, hundreds of thousands mor lives would have been lost, both Japanese and American


If the Japanese hadn't surrendered, they would have defended the homeland to the last man, woman and child.


The two bombs, as horrible as they were, saved lives.


I had the honor of spending quality time with Gen Paul Tibbets and Col Dutch Van Kirk, pilot and navigator of the Enola Gay on several occasions. Both said that they never lost a moment's sleep because of delivering the bomb to Hiroshima because of all the lives they saved by ending the war!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-06-2019, 11:45 PM
 
Location: occupied east coast
873 posts, read 1,960,449 times
Reputation: 1818
Quote:
Originally Posted by Watchman57 View Post
74 years ago today America destroyed Hiroshima with atomic bomb killing 80,000 people...a non military target. Then 40,000 nore when we nuked Nagasaki.


Ohhh, is that what they taught you in college....

Where I got my education.... They taught me that in approx. 45 months of warfare against the empire of Japan the United States military suffered the deaths of 111,606 KIA, and another 253,242 Wounded.

In short.... Thank God we had the bomb.

Last edited by banger; 08-06-2019 at 11:56 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-07-2019, 02:25 PM
 
Location: San Diego CA
4,946 posts, read 3,432,245 times
Reputation: 7948
So much revisionist history about the war with Japan. War by definition is the complete breakdown of civilized behavior. The United States was attacked by the Empire of Japan and this country brought it to an end with all the weaponry at our disposal.


Can you imagine what would have happened if President Truman refused to use our atomic bomb technology and waged a conventional war that could have dragged on for years and killed thousands more young American troops?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-07-2019, 02:57 PM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
13,837 posts, read 8,688,140 times
Reputation: 20150
Quote:
Originally Posted by bus man View Post
By August 5, 1945, we had fire-bombed more than 60 Japanese cities, including Tokyo, leaving them in smoking ruins. We had sunk almost all of their capital ships and most of their smaller ships as well. We had severed the sea links between the home islands and their captured territories, bringing shipments of oil and coal to a standstill. We had cut off millions of their soldiers, leaving them stranded on island outposts. Japan's ability to undertake any military action other than suicidal defense was nearly gone. And, perhaps most ominously, starvation was already beginning to rear its ugly head -- and with it, the horrifying possibility that MILLIONS of Japanese civilians might have died.

By any objective measure, Japan had been completely defeated by August 5, 1945. And yet, they had not surrendered by this time. Nor had they surrendered when the sun came up on August 6th. Absent the atomic bombs, what makes you think they would have surrendered on that day, or the next one, or any time?
Evidently, it is the privilege of history re-writers to proclaim any outcome they wish. The OP is a good example. He has indicated that he knows full well what the motive behind the bombing was, and is fully informed with regard to what would have taken place if the Enola Gay had crashed on take off.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-07-2019, 03:12 PM
 
734 posts, read 372,273 times
Reputation: 2199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Watchman57 View Post
74 years ago today America destroyed Hiroshima with atomic bomb killing 80,000 people...a non military target. Then 40,000 nore when we nuked Nagasaki.
As terrible as that seems in retrospect, these two weapons inflicted far less damage than the horrific fire bombings of Dresden and Tokyo, events which left hundreds of thousands of civilians dead, maimed and homeless. And what is your alternative? A naval blockade with millions of Japanese starving? An invasion with years of street fighting and millions on both sides dead?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-07-2019, 04:00 PM
 
Location: Seattle
1,069 posts, read 228,117 times
Reputation: 1160
As a comparison, the number of deaths caused by the Battle of Okinawa was higher than the two nuclear attacks. An invasion of Japan was considered likely to cause a million casualties. In an alternate reality where no nuclear weapons were dropped, the U.S. would have invaded, suffered heavy casualties, then very likely would have nuked Japan anyway just to end the attrition.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-07-2019, 06:17 PM
 
Location: Ohio
20,097 posts, read 14,337,142 times
Reputation: 16277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Watchman57 View Post
74 years ago today America destroyed Hiroshima with atomic bomb killing 80,000 people...a non military target. Then 40,000 nore when we nuked Nagasaki.
Please list the names of the survivors of the Imperial Japanese Second Army based in Hiroshima.

We'll wait....

After that, you can list the survivors of the Mitsubishi facility that manufactured war materiel.

We'll wait...

120,000 died in the fire-bombing of Tokyo, but you don't seem concerned about that.

I suppose if they were nuked instead of being fire-bombed you'd whine.

The Japanese people had every possible opportunity to avoid being nuked.

1) They could have written letters to the editor to voice their opposition to Japanese expansion in Asia.
2) They could have voiced their concerns with their legislative representative about their opposition.
3) They could have held peaceful protests displaying their opposition to Japanese expansion.
4) The peaceful protests could have been enlarged to include blocking rail lines, highways and airports to prevent or hinder the production of military equipment used to expand Japan.
5) They could have refused to pay taxes in order to hinder the financing of the war effort.
6) They could have had work stoppages refusing to build military equipment.
7) They could have sabotaged arms and munitions factories to hinder Japanese expansion.
8) They could have engaged in mass strikes.
9) They could have sabotaged rail lines, damaged bridges and other infrastructure.
10) They could have demanded the Emperor engage in peace.

They could have done all those things and more...but they voluntarily chose not to do so.

What the Japanese people did voluntarily choose to do is rally massive public support for their armed forces and urged their government to take even more action to expand Japanese conquests.


And then they're mad because they got their asses kicked.

Sore losers.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > History
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top