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Old 08-31-2019, 05:35 PM
 
Location: Iowa
2,824 posts, read 3,114,054 times
Reputation: 3485

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
I'm thinking that Andropov brought Gorbachev from the sticks into Center specifically because he knew he needed a "young thinker" to make the necessary compromises with the West to assure the survival of the USSR. Yes, there had to be Brezhnev and Chernenko doddering in for a few years before Gorbachev could secure power, but it was Andropov who pulled in Gorbachev from outside the inner circle.
I suppose they needed some time to groom Gorbachev, in the mean time, who knows why they chose Chernenko, he was so old and sick. I think the evil empire tag really began to stick after they shot down flight 007, I bet there was a rethinking of policy during 1984 and the seeds of glasnost were planted, when Andropov was promoting Gorbachev. There was a fair amount of ridicule concerning the USSR, in the pop culture and media of the day, even the die hard commies had to laugh at Yakov Smirnoff doing his "life in Soviet Russia" jokes, and the Wendy's commercial featuring a USSR fashion show, lol. A good movie "The Beast of War" about a Russian tank crew in Afghanistan came out in 1988. They were getting the reputation as the most backwards place on earth and it finally started soaking into the politburo, they needed reform. Add the Chernobyl accident which was a great embarrassment. Oil prices took a big dip in 1986, then in Berlin, Reagan says in 1987 "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall" and the wall came down two years later. It was an incredible thing to watch as it unfolded, especially the happenings in the satellite countries such as East Germany and Romania.

But yeah, Reagan should not have told that joke about outlawing Russia and letting the missiles fly, I remember that, and can see how the Russians would not find any humor in it, lol. After all, we got a little touchy when Khruschev said "We will BURY you" back in the 50's. Of course Reagan thought he was in a private setting and reporting of that was done because they opposed Reagan and wanted to score points for Mondale. They always distorted what Reagan said and tried to cut him down with the star wars rhetoric, Ray-Gun crap, tried to make him out as a senile old man, a war monger with his button on the trigger, like in the MTV video Land Of Confusion. Johnny Carson constantly ridiculed him on the Tonight Show. They tried to blame him for AIDS, any cheap shot thing they could think of. But in 1984, Ronald Reagan got nearly 60% of the vote, and when Mondale said "Where's the beef" everyone looked at Reagan because that's where it was. Reagan won every state but for MN and DC. He won California 57 to 41.
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Old 08-31-2019, 05:36 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
42,161 posts, read 18,853,324 times
Reputation: 18981
Quote:
Originally Posted by slowlane3 View Post
OMG, are you serious? Have you never heard of the millions arrested without trial and killed in Stalin's Gulags?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulag

Have you never heard of the millions killed in the great famine due to the failure of collectivizing Soviet farms?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

https://en.wikipedia.org/Soviet-famine-of-1932-33

The Cambodian civil war, a holocaust which wiped out most of the educated Cambodian population?
Before a hysterical response, why not give actually reading what I wrote a shot? Nowhere am I in any manner endorsing Stalin. In fact I identified him as the corrupter of a revolution's ideals.

Okay?
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Old 08-31-2019, 05:43 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
79,534 posts, read 71,975,630 times
Reputation: 78037
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thoreau424 View Post
Yes he did! I distinctively remember him calling them "an evil empire" on TV in various speeches, as though it was yesterday. You aren't going to revise and rewrite history, and won't be able to white-wash this reality.
I remember that, too.
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Old 08-31-2019, 08:16 PM
 
190 posts, read 64,547 times
Reputation: 290
Very interesting responses. Why is it Russians have historically been such an evil antagonistic people? They have always gone around brutally killing and subjugating everyone. The only good things they have done is make Tetris and attack the Nazis. But they have always been extremely paranoid and acted like psychos.
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Old 08-31-2019, 08:52 PM
 
15,218 posts, read 13,855,944 times
Reputation: 7009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azureth View Post
Very interesting responses. Why is it Russians have historically been such an evil antagonistic people?

Because it takes evil to eradicate evil))))

Quote:
They have always gone around brutally killing and subjugating everyone.
"Everyone" who?



Quote:

The only good things they have done is make Tetris and attack the Nazis.
Again - they didn't attack.
But they've got the job done, when BEING attacked.

( Not sure about Tetris though...)


Quote:
But they have always been extremely paranoid
They always worried about the security of their state - true ( here it is the umptieth time, but without it you will not understand the Russian mindset)



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HE6r...iT2gXrCGug7OPu


Quote:
and acted like psychos.
see above.
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Old 08-31-2019, 10:17 PM
 
Location: Mars City
5,320 posts, read 2,267,235 times
Reputation: 7837
Ignorance of the Russian people is one of the top 10 idiocies among American people. We still obviously see the same old cold war foolishness and ignorance played out like a broken record, with no real knowledge or light bulb 'on' behind the scenes.

Some people are much better at being parrots than thinking and rationalizing humans.
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Old 09-01-2019, 01:30 AM
 
20,564 posts, read 11,466,441 times
Reputation: 20778
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thoreau424 View Post
Ignorance of the Russian people is one of the top 10 idiocies among American people.
Well, I studied Russia professionally for a quarter of a century, but I'm not convinced the average American need have any great knowledge "of the Russian people."

I certainly would not list knowledge "of the Russian people" as one of the top 10 things the average American need know.
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Old 09-01-2019, 09:37 AM
 
12,553 posts, read 18,659,593 times
Reputation: 20000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thoreau424 View Post
Ignorance of the Russian people is one of the top 10 idiocies among American people. We still obviously see the same old cold war foolishness and ignorance played out like a broken record, with no real knowledge or light bulb 'on' behind the scenes.

Some people are much better at being parrots than thinking and rationalizing humans.
I think you can switch it around to "Ignorance of the American people is one of the top 10 idiocies among Russian people" as they are the country leaning ever forward back into restriction of liberty and free thought...of course this is an American forum so we won't get much reaction to that.

Russia today is a fart in the wind, a gas station masquerading as a country. Sure it's "cold war" - played down by a factor of 1,000, an irritant like scalp itch, but there are bigger fish to fry on the world stage as well as domestically.
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Old 09-01-2019, 11:46 AM
 
Location: SE Estonia
2,663 posts, read 1,462,127 times
Reputation: 977
Doesn't the OP think that ratings for the USSR depend heavily on who is talking?
That's exactly the case. It may have been an evil empire for a very right wing US republican president, but there are many people who do not think so. By the way, I don't think by far that the ussr was a perfect place.
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Old 09-01-2019, 02:21 PM
 
Location: Mars City
5,320 posts, read 2,267,235 times
Reputation: 7837
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
I certainly would not list knowledge "of the Russian people" as one of the top 10 things the average American need know.
On the contrary. Considering the vast amount of misinformation pumped into the American psyche over generations, a course change of enlightenment and education is of prime importance.
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