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Old 09-02-2019, 09:29 AM
 
1,069 posts, read 254,375 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
The Soviets were freaked in general, but I think only Andropov actually knew they had lost the Cold War. Chernenko was too senile to realize it. Gorbachev said in his autobiography that he didn't know the facts until after he'd taken control.
Gorbachev appears to have understood as well that the Soviet system just wasn't working. Thus, his attempted reforms, which were a combination of desperation (willing to try anything, including ideas long antithetical to communism) and naivete (the hope that the might actually work).
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Old 09-02-2019, 01:45 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
Furthermore, given that Gorbachev made it his goal to reform the system, the "evil empire" meme was unnecessary and inaccurate.

Nope. Reagan said it in 1983. Gorbachev became President two years later in 1985... Not related.
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Old 09-02-2019, 01:49 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thoreau424 View Post
Well, yes. We should ALL see it clearly for what it was. But some aren't that bright.

And yes, we've seen the same thing repeated which each war, as the new/current "enemy" in our government's crosshairs is demonized and vilified, using every trick in the bag. Truth takes the backseat, while drumming of emotion and foaming at the mouth takes front stage and center. The American Way appears to be the quick knee-jerk submission by the masses to this mindset and its participation.

Now we vilify fellow Americans every day in the national media. No one outside of our country is an enemy any longer. The politicians are even being overshadowed in their verbose by the media. The media has taken it to the next level. At least with politicians it was outside forces. Now the media has turned it to exaggerating internal forces. There is no truth in the media. Only "first" to report it for the clicks, the sensationalism and the influence. Only thing that matters now is to hate the guy sitting right next to you. Doesn't matter if you have known him his whole life, hate him because he has a different idea or opinion.
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Old 09-02-2019, 01:56 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Veritas Vincit View Post
In this context, it bears mentioning that Reagan was widely disliked and ridiculed by most of the American intelligentsia at the time. Reagan's policy towards the Soviets was viewed by many observers through a hostile lens to begin with i.e. based on the notion that Reagan was a simple-minded warmonger.



I would think that such a remark would have been seen as another simplistic statement from a senile man surrounded by war-mongering generals and advisors on the payroll of major defense corporations and thus scoffed at..while also raising fears of an international escalation that would have been seen as giving a leader such as Reagan - perceived as very trigger-happy - a pretext for a war. And fear of war was of course a major thing back then. It is often forgotten today, but obvious if you read articles, books, watch movies, listen to music written around that time, that many writers/artists back then thought the U.S. under Reagan was more likely to provoke a nuclear war than the Soviets.

But of course they were. That's not a surprise. Then, just like now, the bulk of them were/are from the left. It didn't mean anything then just like it does not mean anything today. Those elitists loved their "cowboy" insults which just fell flat on the rest of the country. And like now just like then when a "left" President was/is in power and does the same they all disappear and sit on their hands. Whoopty do. We all see it. The overwhelming landslide at the polls in 1984 showed the rest of the country felt quite different from the celebrities at the time.

Last edited by 2Loud; 09-02-2019 at 02:24 PM..
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Old 09-02-2019, 02:04 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azureth View Post
Very interesting responses. Why is it Russians have historically been such an evil antagonistic people? They have always gone around brutally killing and subjugating everyone. The only good things they have done is make Tetris and attack the Nazis. But they have always been extremely paranoid and acted like psychos.
What on earth are you talking about! Ever heard of Genghis Khan? Talk about subjugating! The Russians were the victims of numerous invasions from the East for aeons. What antagonistic people??! The peasantry suffered endlessly. Who exactly are the "evil and antagonistic people" you have in mind?
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Old 09-02-2019, 02:05 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Loud View Post
Nope. Reagan said it in 1983. Gorbachev became President two years later in 1985... Not related.
Reagan said it more than once.
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Old 09-02-2019, 02:26 PM
 
15,221 posts, read 13,855,944 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
What on earth are you talking about! Ever heard of Genghis Khan? Talk about subjugating! The Russians were the victims of numerous invasions from the East for aeons. What antagonistic people??! The peasantry suffered endlessly. Who exactly are the "evil and antagonistic people" you have in mind?

Russian government Ruth.

I suppose Russian government(s) - that's what first comes to mind, because that's the "store front" of the country.

How much the peasantry ( and the rest of the Russian general population) and to what degree (and why) REALLY supports the government's decisions is a mystery to everyone, because no Westerners can get to the bottom of it.

Last edited by erasure; 09-02-2019 at 02:56 PM..
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Old 09-02-2019, 02:51 PM
 
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Also worth noting to complete the picture, that in 1988 people forget that Reagan visited the Gorbachev in Moscow. A reporter asked whether he still thought the Soviet Union was an "evil empire", Reagan responded that he no longer did, and that when he used the term it was "another time, another era". Affirming he thought that the Soviets were an evil Empire previously. Also affirming that after the collapse of the USSR that he was smart in his handling our former enemies at the time.
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Old 09-03-2019, 08:27 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Russian government Ruth.

I suppose Russian government(s) - that's what first comes to mind, because that's the "store front" of the country.

How much the peasantry ( and the rest of the Russian general population) and to what degree (and why) REALLY supports the government's decisions is a mystery to everyone, because no Westerners can get to the bottom of it.
lol
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Old 09-07-2019, 09:54 PM
 
Location: Midwest
4,396 posts, read 7,246,754 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azureth View Post
The USSR had always been an evil empire based on the worst dictators and people one could imagine, even bringing us towards nuclear war. So in 1983 when he gave the speech, why was there any controversy at all? It's akin to saying Nazis are bad guys yet anyone would disagree?
The press and the left LOVED the Soviet Union. That went on for decades. They still love communism.

Look up Time Magazine's slobbering all over Gorby the Great, I'm sure back issues are available. It was sickening. "His hands! His hands have a variety of functions!" "His eyes!" It was amazing that adults actually wrote such slobber.
And on and on like that, like the grade school girls that they are, love Gorby, hate Reagan.
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