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Old Today, 02:51 AM
Status: "Proud American, Always and Forever" (set 26 days ago)
 
Location: DMV Area/NYC/Honolulu
12,761 posts, read 6,581,695 times
Reputation: 12326

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https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smith...Zes9Et5Xq_9CMk

Quote:
When you think of the Trail of Tears, you likely imagine a long procession of suffering Cherokee Indians forced westward by a villainous Andrew Jackson. Perhaps you envision unscrupulous white slaveholders, whose interest in growing a plantation economy underlay the decision to expel the Cherokee, flooding in to take their place east of the Mississippi River.

What you probably don’t picture are Cherokee slaveholders, foremost among them Cherokee chief John Ross. What you probably don’t picture are the numerous African-American slaves, Cherokee-owned, who made the brutal march themselves, or else were shipped en masse to what is now Oklahoma aboard cramped boats by their wealthy Indian masters.

. . .

“The Five Civilized Tribes [Cherokee, Chickasaw, Choctaw, Creek, and Seminole] were deeply committed to slavery, established their own racialized black codes, immediately reestablished slavery when they arrived in Indian territory, rebuilt their nations with slave labor, crushed slave rebellions, and enthusiastically sided with the Confederacy in the Civil War.”
Good exhibit by the Smithsonian National Museum of the American Indian; the article is from last year, however, so I'm not sure if the exhibit is still ongoing.

I've long talked about the role of slavery among some Native American tribes and how this wasn't being taught in lessons about the Trail of Tears. Any "history" about the Trail of Tears that does not mention the African slaves owned by Native Americans and forced to make the journey or otherwise shipped to Indian Territory out West is incomplete, and often intentionally so in order to increase sympathy for the Native American cause.
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Old Today, 07:41 AM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
41,954 posts, read 18,794,486 times
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Africans were involved in selling their fellow Africans into slavery.

Anecdote about a slave who dearly loved his/her master/mistress

Native tribes warred upon one another before the whites arrived.

The civilized tribes of the SE were also slave owners.

Those are four well known facts which now and again get presented by someone here as though it is shocking news. They radiate the appearance of being surprise facts which mitigate the white guilt for race based slavery or the extermination of the native tribes.
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Old Today, 08:20 AM
 
Location: bold new city of the south
5,435 posts, read 4,367,491 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
Africans were involved in selling their fellow Africans into slavery.

Anecdote about a slave who dearly loved his/her master/mistress

Native tribes warred upon one another before the whites arrived.

The civilized tribes of the SE were also slave owners.

Those are four well known facts which now and again get presented by someone here as though it is shocking news. They radiate the appearance of being surprise facts which mitigate the white guilt for race based slavery or the extermination of the native tribes.
To me, those four facts point to every tribe (civilization) has had a form of subjugation/slavery and been subjugated/enslaved by others. The eliminated facts, taught to our youth, point to the demonization of Whites to perpetuate white guilt.

Sometimes - history needs a push.

Give me four years to teach the children and the seed I have sown will never be uprooted.

A lie told often enough becomes the truth.
Vladimir Lenin
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Old Today, 08:39 AM
 
Location: State of Transition
79,395 posts, read 71,706,666 times
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Why would Andrew Jackson not be considered "villainous" just because the Cherokees took slaves with them to Oklahoma? Jackson defied federal law as laid down by the Supreme Court, when he used his power as Commander-In-Chief of the army to round up the Cherokees and force them off their land. This provoked the first Constitutional crisis in the short history of the young nation.

I fail to see how anyone could have been "shipped en masse... in boats" to landlocked Oklahoma, but maybe it's just me....

White slaveholders didn't covet Cherokee land because they wanted to spread the "plantation economy". It was mostly poor whites who encroached on Cherokee land, as the wealthy slaveowning whites were already sitting pretty on their own estates. Furthermore, what doomed the Cherokees was the discovery of gold on their land. There was a gold rush, that for some reason is never mentioned in most history books.

Something is awry at the Smithsonian NMAI. Unbelievably sloppy research, or odd selection criteria for the "information" (TM) presented in the exhibit.

Last edited by Ruth4Truth; Today at 08:58 AM..
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Old Today, 08:40 AM
 
12,227 posts, read 5,324,490 times
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What I find fascinating is how some people are so obsessed with slavery as if it wasn't practiced by nearly every culture and civilization since the beginning of human beings.
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Old Today, 10:58 AM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
41,954 posts, read 18,794,486 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buddy5 View Post
To me, those four facts point to every tribe (civilization) has had a form of subjugation/slavery and been subjugated/enslaved by others. The eliminated facts, taught to our youth, point to the demonization of Whites to perpetuate white guilt.

Sometimes - history needs a push.

Give me four years to teach the children and the seed I have sown will never be uprooted.

A lie told often enough becomes the truth.
Vladimir Lenin
But they aren't eliminated facts. You are obviously aware of them, I was already aware of them, precisely who is it you think has eliminated those facts if awareness is widespread and no one is denying them?

My objection to these styles of thread starters is that hey have something missing in common. That something which isn't there is..

"Therefore......"

Therefore what? The SE native tribes owned slaves, therefore it was okay for whites to own slaves? The SE tribes owned slaves, therefore the Trail of Tears was justified?

When you reply to the OP, asking what that "therefore" was supposed to be, the typical response is "I just wanted everyone to know.......etc" Well, we already knew. What about it?
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Old Today, 11:04 AM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
41,954 posts, read 18,794,486 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marino760 View Post
What I find fascinating is how some people are so obsessed with slavery as if it wasn't practiced by nearly every culture and civilization since the beginning of human beings.
We know about how slavery was widespread in its practice over the course of history. What was unique about slavery in the American south was that it was race based, and codified by law. Blacks were inferior, subhumans, incapable of caring properly for themselves, given to behaving badly when not supervised by whites, and consequently enslaving them was actually doing them a favor. That was the doctrine being promoted by the slave owners.

Last edited by Grandstander; Today at 11:18 AM..
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Old Today, 11:16 AM
 
Location: annandale, va & slidell, la
7,653 posts, read 3,140,615 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
We know about how slavery was widespread in its practice over the course of history. What was unique about slavery in the American south was that it was race based, and codified by law. Blacks were inferior, subhumans, incapable of caring properly for themselves, given to behaving badly when not supervised by whites, an consequently enslaving them was actually doing them a favor. That was the doctrine being promoted by the slave owners.
Dude, slaves are slaves. The degree of mistreatment they received is your opinion.
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Old Today, 11:21 AM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
41,954 posts, read 18,794,486 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finalmove View Post
Dude, slaves are slaves. The degree of mistreatment they received is your opinion.
Are you denying that southern slavery was unique in it being race based, accompanied by a codified theory that blacks were inferior and therefore it was appropriate to enslave them? If so, please provide another example. Or is your "I'm bored and don't want to have to think about it" style response the only arrow in your quiver?
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Old Today, 12:00 PM
 
Location: annandale, va & slidell, la
7,653 posts, read 3,140,615 times
Reputation: 6483
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
Are you denying that southern slavery was unique in it being race based, accompanied by a codified theory that blacks were inferior and therefore it was appropriate to enslave them? If so, please provide another example. Or is your "I'm bored and don't want to have to think about it" style response the only arrow in your quiver?
Dude, read some history. European merchants needed labor and fast! They found it cheap with Blacks offered for sale by Blacks on the way to the Indies. Goodness, it was certainly a different era!

Blacks were always popular as slaves because they were sturdily built and would be immediately identifiable as an escapee solely on their color. Granted, that was harsh, and was outlawed sooner than many other Nations.

The recent infatuation the Left has with American slavery is cause for suspicion.

Any thoughts?
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