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Old 09-02-2019, 08:06 PM
 
Location: Somewhere in northern Alabama
18,117 posts, read 54,817,588 times
Reputation: 31085

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lekrii View Post
Quantifiably average hours worked are at a historic low in the US, and thanks in part to the labor movement. Average hours for full time employed persons are a hair under 40 hours/week. And yes, thankfully people now have control of their own retirement with 401ks.

That said, this thread is about labor day and showing it the respect it deserves. It is inappropriate to debate in this thread. PM me if you're confused over the statistics of hours worked and I'll respond in private.
Average hours worked are ALSO so low because the tipping point for full-time employee is below 40 hours per week, and full-timers get benefits. Not full time? Aww shucks, no benies, more money for us. I had to play that game. Got away from it, started my own business.
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Old 09-02-2019, 08:33 PM
 
1,842 posts, read 614,186 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harry chickpea View Post
Average hours worked are ALSO so low because the tipping point for full-time employee is below 40 hours per week, and full-timers get benefits. Not full time? Aww shucks, no benies, more money for us. I had to play that game. Got away from it, started my own business.
Even adjusting for that, average hours has steadily declined. Remove part time workers from the statistics and average hours have still gone down steadily over time. We see the past with rose colored glasses, but overall we work less now for a better standard of living than most other generations.

That the labor market is forgiving enough that people can start their own businesses (and succeed) if they are unhappy is a big sign of how much better things are.

Last edited by Lekrii; 09-02-2019 at 08:47 PM..
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Old 09-03-2019, 11:14 AM
 
Location: The Woods
17,027 posts, read 22,436,176 times
Reputation: 9204
I don't know where the information that Americans' work weeks are getting shorter comes from because the statistics show the 40 hour workweek no longer exits for the average American. Current statistics with an interesting historic timeline on the subject: https://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/03/how-...cans-work.html
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Old 09-03-2019, 12:05 PM
 
1,944 posts, read 762,500 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
I don't know where the information that Americans' work weeks are getting shorter comes from because the statistics show the 40 hour workweek no longer exits for the average American. Current statistics with an interesting historic timeline on the subject: https://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/03/how-...cans-work.html
Very informative article including that historic timeline. The best that I have seen. Thank you for posting it.
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Old 09-04-2019, 08:04 AM
 
5,219 posts, read 2,304,409 times
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I'm sure that timeline ties in with the decline of Labor unions...……..
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Old 09-05-2019, 09:47 AM
 
Location: San Diego CA
5,083 posts, read 3,494,607 times
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I'm retired but my daughter and her friends are part of the workforce. Unless you're part of the ever diminishing union membership things are pretty grim. People work way over 40 hours a week. Companies cut staff to the bone and people are expected to do the work of two people. And no more pensions.
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Old 09-06-2019, 11:14 AM
 
Location: MN
154 posts, read 278,759 times
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Quote:
In the 1800s average hours/week were over 70. Today, thanks to the labor movement it's under 40. We have better working conditions today than ever before in history.

Today is a great day to not only remember the past and how we got here, but look to the future on how workers now have the ability to make their own way, and be thankful that we have the rights and freedoms to make successful careers on our own rights. We can now move forward as workers in a way not possible 100 years ago.
I think the problem is with comparing today with 100 years ago. While yes conditions are objectively better for workers, the direction is eroding rather than improving, in my view due chiefly to the lack of unionist militancy and the communist threat. A 100 years ago the unionist goal was to achieve a counterbalance to the control of the workplace by owners; the communist for workers to control it. Now with those options gone the only recourse for a worker is to "find another job" or "start their own business" both of which are risky. Since the decline of militancy since the mid-20th century, working class conditions have been deteriorating.
Quote:
And yes, thankfully people now have control of their own retirement with 401ks.
That's not a good thing. Do I have the time to research investments? Do I make enough that a savings account will last till I die? I don't even really have control over it, our plan has been whittled down to like 6 or 7 options, one of which is just the company stock, and these accounts are riddled with a gazillion rules. I'd hardly call that "control."
Quote:
People work way over 40 hours a week. Companies cut staff to the bone and people are expected to do the work of two people. And no more pensions.
Exactly, I work in a factory which periodically works on weekends (Saturdays &/or Sundays). On our shift there were two others in my rotation for weekends and 12 hour shifts. One of them quit last year and was not replaced, so now I routinely work weekends about every other week and our regular work that was divided among three is now divided among two. The notification of weekend work has also shrunk, since our retailer component ramps up short-notice "flash sales" so there is sometimes only a day or two notice if you are working a weekend. Our company offered pensions and a max. of 30 days vacation before 2000, now just 401ks and 25 max. vacation. Or in the last two years, while our company whines about the "labor shortage" and that the reason why there are less people working here is because "they can't find anyone," they have axed HSA non-match funding completely, PPO plans no longer cover anything outside of network (though to offset this they are offering an HSA plan with a $10,000 deductible), axed "upgrade pay" for newcomers who do work above their pay grade, and had a 9-month hiring freeze; meanwhile our corporate board ever increases share buybacks and dividends, they sold off $2.5 billion dollars off assets to increase buy back shares.
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Old Today, 06:17 PM
 
Location: Proxima Centauri
4,921 posts, read 2,054,183 times
Reputation: 5376
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcgr View Post
I think the problem is with comparing today with 100 years ago. While yes conditions are objectively better for workers, the direction is eroding rather than improving, in my view due chiefly to the lack of unionist militancy and the communist threat. A 100 years ago the unionist goal was to achieve a counterbalance to the control of the workplace by owners; the communist for workers to control it. Now with those options gone the only recourse for a worker is to "find another job" or "start their own business" both of which are risky. Since the decline of militancy since the mid-20th century, working class conditions have been deteriorating.
That's not a good thing. Do I have the time to research investments? Do I make enough that a savings account will last till I die? I don't even really have control over it, our plan has been whittled down to like 6 or 7 options, one of which is just the company stock, and these accounts are riddled with a gazillion rules. I'd hardly call that "control."
Exactly, I work in a factory which periodically works on weekends (Saturdays &/or Sundays). On our shift there were two others in my rotation for weekends and 12 hour shifts. One of them quit last year and was not replaced, so now I routinely work weekends about every other week and our regular work that was divided among three is now divided among two. The notification of weekend work has also shrunk, since our retailer component ramps up short-notice "flash sales" so there is sometimes only a day or two notice if you are working a weekend. Our company offered pensions and a max. of 30 days vacation before 2000, now just 401ks and 25 max. vacation. Or in the last two years, while our company whines about the "labor shortage" and that the reason why there are less people working here is because "they can't find anyone," they have axed HSA non-match funding completely, PPO plans no longer cover anything outside of network (though to offset this they are offering an HSA plan with a $10,000 deductible), axed "upgrade pay" for newcomers who do work above their pay grade, and had a 9-month hiring freeze; meanwhile our corporate board ever increases share buybacks and dividends, they sold off $2.5 billion dollars off assets to increase buy back shares.

Thank you for supporting my beliefs about the erosion of workers positions and adding what you did. I was forced out of action for a few days for expressing something similar less diplomatically.
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