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Old 09-08-2019, 10:45 AM
 
10,796 posts, read 16,022,330 times
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Here's an interesting story about true soldiers valor.
WW2
Operation Bagration, you can look it up.
Troops of General Chuykov, ahead of schedule, cross Visla river and hold their position, waiting on their backup to join.

Their adversary was none else but famous SS division Totenkopf, dead skull. Professional soldiers for generations.
At some point in battles, German troops were surrounded.

After lost attempts to break out, one night, they chose to do psych attach onto Chuykov's soldiers and, breaking through, use Visla river as escape route.
Middle of the night, they strip naked down to waists, turn their division anthem up, turn projectors on and, lit by their light, march at Russian Gvardiya (Guard) troops - with nothing else but bayonets and knives.
As the man in video says - what's easier, simply mow them down with machine guns, right?
Well, Chykov's Gvardeitsy set aside their firearms, pull out THEIR bayonets and knives - and go "wall on wall" into the largest cold weapon hand to hand combat in WW2.
And they won. Germans didn't get through.
Military doctor, who witnessed that attack and later told about it to the man in video, said that never again in his life had he seen so many cut and ripped flesh wounds on so many soldiers.
Point to that story is rather likely not understood by now generation and miltaries, fighting from remote bunkers with drones and missiles.
It is a great example of true soldier valor, when battle is won by hand to hand and spirit against spirit, not with gizmos and technology. Gizmos and technology eventually exhausts and is spent, valor and spirit either is in PEOPLE- or is not.






https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOwpA4wwzOc


Btw, reminds me of Australian corp in North Africa, fighting against Rommel.
They were known for going into attacks completely naked, with insignia drawn on their skin with indelible pencil. Allegedly, had the most shocking effect on Germans.
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Old 09-09-2019, 06:18 PM
 
980 posts, read 296,631 times
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i am an amateur ww2 history buff..ive heard of bagration however NOT this hand-to-hand fighting..thanks..


its my understanding that the Nazis with their "superiority" racism and the Japanese with their Bushido code BOTH thought heir soldiers to be superior by as much as ten to one...meanwhile George marshal wanted a "common man" army (we did finally get rangers and such..but later on)


at any rate the war was won on the production line with mass quantities of sometime inferior product..in ww1 70 percent of casualties were from artillery...since ww2 was more mobile i doubt artillery was as effective..but bravery only goes so far in dodging and ducking cannon shells and machine gun bullets


all sides used amphetamines...sounds like they sure were in this fight lol
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Old 09-09-2019, 07:05 PM
 
Location: San Diego CA
5,122 posts, read 3,506,998 times
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Interesting story. Taking a military objective by knife or bayonet even in World War II was an exception to the rule given modern military technology. The last known bayonet charge by American forces was during the Korean War in 1951. Captain Lewis Millett an Army company commander took his troops up and over a hill held by North Korean forces. At the time this was the first bayonet charge by US forces since the Civil War.
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Old 09-09-2019, 08:55 PM
 
15,232 posts, read 13,863,901 times
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I personally don't believe in this fanciful story.
Sounds nice, but..

We would have heard about it already long time ago.
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Old 09-09-2019, 09:28 PM
 
Location: Elysium
6,730 posts, read 3,762,619 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elvis44102 View Post
i am an amateur ww2 history buff..ive heard of bagration however NOT this hand-to-hand fighting..thanks..


its my understanding that the Nazis with their "superiority" racism and the Japanese with their Bushido code BOTH thought heir soldiers to be superior by as much as ten to one...meanwhile George marshal wanted a "common man" army (we did finally get rangers and such..but later on)


at any rate the war was won on the production line with mass quantities of sometime inferior product..in ww1 70 percent of casualties were from artillery...since ww2 was more mobile i doubt artillery was as effective..but bravery only goes so far in dodging and ducking cannon shells and machine gun bullets


all sides used amphetamines...sounds like they sure were in this fight lol
I bet The Field Artillery Journal and the cadre at Fort Sill will say that similar numbers or casualties were caused by artillery, mortar and aerial bombardment in WWII. You get into a dicey who is what situation when you start trying to count in tank and tank destroyer crews, more naval gun fire support etc. In any case anything beyond a bullet hitting a soldier, either aimed or just a random hit from an area receiving suppressing fire.
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Old 09-09-2019, 10:06 PM
 
6,533 posts, read 6,569,618 times
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I look up operation Bagration on Wiki, and says nothing bout this

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Bagration
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Old 09-09-2019, 11:06 PM
 
15,232 posts, read 13,863,901 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Brazen_3133 View Post
I look up operation Bagration on Wiki, and says nothing bout this

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Bagration

...and after watching these episodes, you'll get an idea why this kind of made-up stories don't quite belong there.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xz-CFWCVbpY


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzk7EGV0M4I&t=89s



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saKzSV5p5aI&t=37s


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZZ16ztRxzY


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ic6Do8busjw




P.S. Bagration is pronounced in Russian as "Bagrateeon" by the way (as the name of the prince Bagration, back in 1812)

Last edited by erasure; 09-09-2019 at 11:47 PM..
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Old 09-10-2019, 05:01 AM
 
9,899 posts, read 17,264,334 times
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The members of SS Division Totenkopf were not "Professional soldiers for generations."

I will also call BS to the rest of the story.
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Old 09-10-2019, 06:42 AM
 
68 posts, read 9,366 times
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As stated correctly, soldiers of the SS Totenkopf division were far from "professional soldiers for generations", and the idea of Australian troops, or any troops for that matter, attacking while naked is ludicrous in the extreme.
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Old 09-10-2019, 12:35 PM
 
12,563 posts, read 18,667,120 times
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I watched the video with a very rough English CC translation. Apparently this is like a story that old Russian soldiers hand down to new recruits. It's probably been handed down for 3 or 4 generations. It's also interesting for having some old world European rivalries - Teutonic Knights vs. the Knights of Russia as in recounting some glorious 13th century battle where the rulers of Eastern Orthodox Russia and Alexander Nevsky were battling Christian Invaders. Some things never change.

Alas, not much of the story really rings true. Of course there is no account of this story when trying to Google. Anyways, there was not much valor on the Russian front during World War II where in reality soldiers from both sides were killing and murdering civilians and POW's with about as much concern as one would kill flies.

Conclusion - military propaganda peace with interesting medieval historical components.
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