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Old 11-19-2019, 10:02 PM
 
Location: The Beautiful Northwest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marino760 View Post
It's my understanding Anne of Cleves and Henry VIII remained good friends and often visited with each other after the end of their very brief marriage. Henry was so grateful to her for not putting up any kind of resistance to having the marriage annulled that he made certain she had whatever she needed to live a very comfortable life in England where she spent the rest of her life, and died at the age of 41, still relatively young.
BTW, from the portrait done of her during the time she lived in England, I personally don't find her homely at all.
I think that he really did respect the fact that she didn’t contest the annulment, considering her position of power and considering what he had been through with Catherine of Aragon. I think he was fearing a protracted, messy affair, and when that didn’t happen he was pleasantly surprised and rewarded her in kind.
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Old 11-20-2019, 02:22 AM
 
Location: Independent Republic of Ballard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marino760 View Post
It's my understanding Anne of Cleves and Henry VIII remained good friends and often visited with each other after the end of their very brief marriage. Henry was so grateful to her for not putting up any kind of resistance to having the marriage annulled that he made certain she had whatever she needed to live a very comfortable life in England where she spent the rest of her life, and died at the age of 41, still relatively young.
BTW, from the portrait done of her during the time she lived in England, I personally don't find her homely at all.
Portraits can be deceptive and conceal a multitude of flaws - often, before marriage the only thing the groom saw of the bride was her portrait, the primary purpose of which was to sell the bride. Being pock-marked, for instance, was very common.
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Old 11-20-2019, 08:16 AM
 
Location: Wonderland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blueherons View Post
It was the most deadly profession there was at the time.
When Henry married Anne of Cleves, his first wife had died of natural causes (or so it was presented) at age 51. (She most likely died of cancer.) Anne Boleyn was the only wife he had had put to death. Jane Seymour had died after childbirth. Actually, though this is a sad story, dying after childbirth or at age 51 was common. In fact, if a person lived past age 50 that was notable.

But I agree - Henry was a particularly loathsome match. Hats off to Anne of Cleves for dodging a bullet! And getting a very nice settlement and a life of some freedom afterward. As it was, she only lived to age 42, dying most likely from cancer. The average life expectancy during those years was abysmally low.

Also, to address another poster - there is no evidence that Henry VIII ever actually called Anne of Cleves a "Flanders Mare:"
Quote:
By the way, there is no contemporary evidence for Henry VIII calling Anne of Cleves a “Flanders Mare”. Gilbert Burnet, Bishop of Salisbury, wrote in his 1679 book that Henry “swore they had brought over a Flanders mare to him”, but that is him saying that Henry VIII uttered those words and it is not backed up by evidence. Anne was not from Flanders anyway, something that Henry VIII was well aware of.
https://www.theanneboleynfiles.com/a...flanders-mare/
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Old 11-20-2019, 08:17 AM
 
Location: Wonderland
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Originally Posted by ComeCloser View Post
From what I understand, Henry had a preferred type. He liked young petite women with smallish breasts. Anne of Cleves was not considered ugly - then or now. She was a shapely woman with a healthy rack and did not fit into Henry's preferred type.

Henry was a King, and used to getting what he wanted, but by the time Anne of Cleves was being considered, he was older, fatter, had smelly festering sores on his legs - and by now being his wife was not considered to be the healthiest thing a woman could do.

If I remember correctly, she made some kind of deal with him and returned home slightly wealthier than she had been when she left. It was not without cost to her. She had to bear the blame of his inability to consummate their marriage.
She never returned home - she lived in England till her death at age 42. She seemed quite content with her settlement and her lifestyle after Henry. She was well regarded in her adopted country.
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Old 11-20-2019, 10:56 AM
 
Location: Port St. Lucie, Florida
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"In contrast to the petite stature of Henry’s first three wives, she was tall, big-boned and strong-featured. Her face was dominated by a large nose that had been cleverly disguised by the angle of Holbein’s portrait, and her skin was pitted with the marks of smallpox."

but

A contemporary depiction reveals the king as a grotesque figure. His beady eyes and tiny, pursed mouth are almost lost in the layers of flesh which surround them. He appears to have no neck, and his enormous frame extends beyond the reaches of the canvas. “The king was so stout that such a man has never been seen,” reported a visitor to court. “Three of the biggest men that could be found could get inside his doublet.” On balance, Anne had far more reason for complaint than her prospective husband.
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Old 11-20-2019, 12:24 PM
 
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I remember seeing a movie about Henry VIII and I think they had Elsa Lancaster playing Anne of Cleves, not sure.
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Old 11-20-2019, 12:37 PM
 
Location: San Diego CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlaLadyB View Post
"In contrast to the petite stature of Henry’s first three wives, she was tall, big-boned and strong-featured. Her face was dominated by a large nose that had been cleverly disguised by the angle of Holbein’s portrait, and her skin was pitted with the marks of smallpox."

but

A contemporary depiction reveals the king as a grotesque figure. His beady eyes and tiny, pursed mouth are almost lost in the layers of flesh which surround them. He appears to have no neck, and his enormous frame extends beyond the reaches of the canvas. “The king was so stout that such a man has never been seen,” reported a visitor to court. “Three of the biggest men that could be found could get inside his doublet.” On balance, Anne had far more reason for complaint than her prospective husband.
Henry had several suites of armour made for him over his reign. Examination of one of the surviving examples produced in his later years revealed a waist line measuring some 52 inches. He was grossly obese.
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Old 11-20-2019, 03:18 PM
KCZ
 
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My understanding was that Anne's upbringing and demeanor were also off-putting to Henry. She came from a traditional society with restrained manners and conservative dress, while Henry was used to the gay, flirtatious women with low-cut dresses in his court, and his found Anne to be rather prudish. I think Anne got the better part of the deal by being set aside by Henry and not going to the executioner's block.
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Old 11-22-2019, 09:14 AM
 
12,446 posts, read 5,578,400 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KCZ View Post
My understanding was that Anne's upbringing and demeanor were also off-putting to Henry. She came from a traditional society with restrained manners and conservative dress, while Henry was used to the gay, flirtatious women with low-cut dresses in his court, and his found Anne to be rather prudish. I think Anne got the better part of the deal by being set aside by Henry and not going to the executioner's block.
I think what you stated is a major reason Henry found Anne a turn off. From what I've read, she was brought up extremely conservative. She had no idea what sex was and thought she could become pregnant just by laying next to Henry in bed with little to no body contact.

Yes, Henry was a monster in many ways, but he didn't willy-nilly decapitate his wives. Both wives that were beheaded were thought to have been unfaithful to him and probably were. He never accused Catherine of Aragon of being unfaithful although that would have been the quickest way of getting rid of her after many years of marriage.
He never could have accused Anne of Cleves of being unfaithful as he only knew her for a few days before wanting an annulment. Anne of Cleves was never going to the executioner's block. He would have gotten a divorce from her, it was just a matter of how easy or difficult she was going to make it and she made it very easy.

Last edited by marino760; 11-22-2019 at 10:22 AM..
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Old 11-22-2019, 10:38 PM
 
Location: Fort Lauderdale, Florida
9,853 posts, read 8,763,741 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
When Henry married Anne of Cleves, his first wife had died of natural causes (or so it was presented) at age 51. (She most likely died of cancer.) Anne Boleyn was the only wife he had had put to death. Jane Seymour had died after childbirth. Actually, though this is a sad story, dying after childbirth or at age 51 was common. In fact, if a person lived past age 50 that was notable.

But I agree - Henry was a particularly loathsome match. Hats off to Anne of Cleves for dodging a bullet! And getting a very nice settlement and a life of some freedom afterward. As it was, she only lived to age 42, dying most likely from cancer. The average life expectancy during those years was abysmally low.

Also, to address another poster - there is no evidence that Henry VIII ever actually called Anne of Cleves a "Flanders Mare:"

https://www.theanneboleynfiles.com/a...flanders-mare/
Actually, it's been much inferred in academic circles through the years that Anne Bolyen had Catherine of Aragon poisoned, Anne Boleyn was beheaded, Jane Seymour died in childbirth, Catherine Howard was ALSO beheaded for screwing everything in sight, and Catherine Parr died in childbirth but not having Henry VIII's child.

I'd say Queen of England under his watch was a slippery slope.
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