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Old 12-08-2019, 07:15 PM
509 509 started this thread
 
6,300 posts, read 6,945,136 times
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I was reading this book on accidental Presidents: https://bookoutlet.com/Store/Details...RoCTu8QAvD_BwE

In it lots of arguments and discussions about impeaching various Presidents. Almost like today!!

I have heard the Lincoln committed impeachable offenses during the Civil War. So here is my short list, from my historical readings.

Will start with Lincoln:" Lincoln ordered several Northern newspapers shut down that wrote against him, and he had several city officials of Baltimore arrested. He ordered the arrest of Chief Justice Roger Taney after he ruled that Lincoln had violated the Constitution after he had illegally suspended the Writ of Habeus Corpus." from Google???

Woodrow Wilson: Segregated employment with the Federal government, actually fired Federal employees for being black.

Franklin Roosevelt: Interned American citizens of Japanese origin.

Lyndon Johnson: Lying to Congress about the Gulf of Tonkin incident. Leading to the Vietnam War escalation.

Barrack Obama: Violated the War Powers Act by not asking Congress for use of force after 90 days of war against Libya.

DACA: Used the Executive Branch authority to write Legislation in violation of separation of powers clause in the Constitution.

Most of these meet the definition of an impeachable offense. Violating the Constitution in these cases.

So any others??.....I don't want to focus on specific Presidents, but their actions that were probably impeachable offenses.

 
Old 12-08-2019, 07:34 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
48,564 posts, read 23,980,005 times
Reputation: 21237
Quote:
Originally Posted by 509 View Post
Lincoln ordered the arrest of Chief Justice Roger Taney after he ruled that Lincoln had violated the Constitution
I've read a great deal about President Lincoln and the Civil War, and I had never heard of the above alleged incident.

Did some research and it turns out that the story rests on a singular, questionable source. For a complete dissection ...
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!to...ar/SELVKtxfHWg

And of course Taney was never arrested.
 
Old 12-08-2019, 07:38 PM
509 509 started this thread
 
6,300 posts, read 6,945,136 times
Reputation: 9399
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
I've read a great deal about President Lincoln and the Civil War, and I had never heard of the above alleged incident.

Did some research and it turns out that the story rests on a singular, questionable source. For a complete dissection ...
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!to...ar/SELVKtxfHWg

And of course Taney was never arrested.
I remember reading in history class the suspension of Habaes Corpus, no mention of shutting down of opposition newspaper or the incident with Taney....it was a google answer....so I went with it.
 
Old 12-08-2019, 08:26 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
48,564 posts, read 23,980,005 times
Reputation: 21237
Quote:
Originally Posted by 509 View Post
I remember reading in history class the suspension of Habaes Corpus, no mention of shutting down of opposition newspaper or the incident with Taney....it was a google answer....so I went with it.
The president has such powers if they are granted specifically by Congress. At the time President Lincoln needed to exercise those powers to prevent secessionists from seizing power in Maryland, Congress was not in session. Lincoln reasoned that once in secession, the powers would be granted, but by that time it would be too late to use them. His argument was ...shall all laws go unenforced because we must enforce this one law above any other? So, pragmatist that he was, he acted. Later Congress did authorize the actions retroactively.

I think that I would have done the same thing in the same situation. Would you have done differently? Said that you were helpless to keep Maryland in the Union because Congress wasn't in session? That resonates of Lincoln's predecessor, President Buchanan who stated that he opposed secession, but was powerless to prevent it. One president acted to meet the emergency, one president ruled that it wasn't any of his business. Which of those presidents has his face on Mt. Rushmore and which one always finishes at or near the bottom when the presidents are rated?
 
Old 12-08-2019, 08:51 PM
 
14,316 posts, read 14,118,208 times
Reputation: 45504
Quote:
Originally Posted by 509 View Post
I was reading this book on accidental Presidents: https://bookoutlet.com/Store/Details...RoCTu8QAvD_BwE

In it lots of arguments and discussions about impeaching various Presidents. Almost like today!!

I have heard the Lincoln committed impeachable offenses during the Civil War. So here is my short list, from my historical readings.

Will start with Lincoln:" Lincoln ordered several Northern newspapers shut down that wrote against him, and he had several city officials of Baltimore arrested. He ordered the arrest of Chief Justice Roger Taney after he ruled that Lincoln had violated the Constitution after he had illegally suspended the Writ of Habeus Corpus." from Google???

Woodrow Wilson: Segregated employment with the Federal government, actually fired Federal employees for being black.

Franklin Roosevelt: Interned American citizens of Japanese origin.

Lyndon Johnson: Lying to Congress about the Gulf of Tonkin incident. Leading to the Vietnam War escalation.

Barrack Obama: Violated the War Powers Act by not asking Congress for use of force after 90 days of war against Libya.

DACA: Used the Executive Branch authority to write Legislation in violation of separation of powers clause in the Constitution.

Most of these meet the definition of an impeachable offense. Violating the Constitution in these cases.

So any others??.....I don't want to focus on specific Presidents, but their actions that were probably impeachable offenses.
I see your bias against one political party here. I doubt it is worth responding to this post, but I will.

Woodrow Wilson. Wilson rolled back progress that had been made desegregating government employment. Yet, there is nothing here that involves the violation of a law, nothing that involves the taking of a bribe, and nothing that could remotely be describe as a high crime or misdemeanor under Article II of the Constitution.

Franklin D Roosevelt. This is laughable. The Supreme Court actually held FDR's actions to be constitutional under his war powers in Korematsu v. United States. 323 US 214 (1944). The vast majority of Americans wanted the Japanese placed in relocation camps because they were afraid a segment of them might be disloyal. Try again. This one isn't even close.

Lyndon Johnson. We've talked about the Gulf of Tonkin Incident before on this forum. Johnson didn't so much lie about the Gulf of Tonkin Incident as he exaggerated it. There were two incidents. In the first incident American ships were actually attacked by North Vietnamese torpedo boats and torpedos were fired at American vessels. In the second incident, because of errors made by a radar operator on an American vessel there was first a belief that a second attack had occurred. This was relayed to the President. Later, it seemed as though the second attack had been a mistake. What exactly happened in the second incident was not clear.
However, there is no question the first attack was real and it alone would support hostilities against North Vietnam.

Barack Obama. Violated the War Powers Act. The Act maybe unconstitutional. It may violate sections of the Constitution that make the President Commander in Chief of our armed forces. DACA. This is just BS. What DACA amounted too was simply the President directing the DOJ and ICE to use prosecutorial discretion. Prosecutors and police don't indict and arrest everyone committing a crime. They pick and choose based on severity of the offense. The president simply directed agencies under his control to not seek to remove people illegally in the country who were not breaking other laws.
 
Old 12-08-2019, 09:17 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
5,725 posts, read 11,667,187 times
Reputation: 9828
It's always easy to spot the politics forum refugees.
 
Old 12-08-2019, 09:28 PM
509 509 started this thread
 
6,300 posts, read 6,945,136 times
Reputation: 9399
Quote:
Originally Posted by markg91359 View Post
I see your bias against one political party here. I doubt it is worth responding to this post, but I will.

Woodrow Wilson. Wilson rolled back progress that had been made desegregating government employment. Yet, there is nothing here that involves the violation of a law, nothing that involves the taking of a bribe, and nothing that could remotely be describe as a high crime or misdemeanor under Article II of the Constitution.

Franklin D Roosevelt. This is laughable. The Supreme Court actually held FDR's actions to be constitutional under his war powers in Korematsu v. United States. 323 US 214 (1944). The vast majority of Americans wanted the Japanese placed in relocation camps because they were afraid a segment of them might be disloyal. Try again. This one isn't even close.

Lyndon Johnson. We've talked about the Gulf of Tonkin Incident before on this forum. Johnson didn't so much lie about the Gulf of Tonkin Incident as he exaggerated it. There were two incidents. In the first incident American ships were actually attacked by North Vietnamese torpedo boats and torpedos were fired at American vessels. In the second incident, because of errors made by a radar operator on an American vessel there was first a belief that a second attack had occurred. This was relayed to the President. Later, it seemed as though the second attack had been a mistake. What exactly happened in the second incident was not clear.
However, there is no question the first attack was real and it alone would support hostilities against North Vietnam.

Barack Obama. Violated the War Powers Act. The Act maybe unconstitutional. It may violate sections of the Constitution that make the President Commander in Chief of our armed forces. DACA. This is just BS. What DACA amounted too was simply the President directing the DOJ and ICE to use prosecutorial discretion. Prosecutors and police don't indict and arrest everyone committing a crime. They pick and choose based on severity of the offense. The president simply directed agencies under his control to not seek to remove people illegally in the country who were not breaking other laws.
No...just the ones I remember. Feel free to add others. In fact, please do it.

I disagree on Wilson. He violated a whole mess of amendments to the Constution. That in my opinion, is a high crime.

Likewise, with Roosevelt. I just finished reading Brett Baier's book on the last days of Roosevelt. In passing, it is pretty clear that Roosevelt did the interment for political reasons. Yep, the Supreme Court said it was Constitutional. That just shows how fragile our system of government is in fact.

Lyndon Johnson. I don't know the difference between a lie and exaggeration. But yeah, that one can go either way.

Obama and War Powers Act. That is pretty clear that he violated the law. The Act may be unconstitutional, however, that is not a Presidential decision.

Obama and DACA. Clearly went beyond the bounds of "prosecutorial discretion". I think the Supreme Court is going to settle this soon.

My posting was just meant as a initial cut, so feel free to add "balance" to my selection.
 
Old 12-08-2019, 09:33 PM
 
Location: West Virginia
16,591 posts, read 15,522,691 times
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This thread violates the History forum rules by discussing the immediate past President.

Closed.
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