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Old Yesterday, 05:38 PM
 
Location: Preussen
412 posts, read 113,958 times
Reputation: 307

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nik4me View Post
Apologies for a long post and typos- on the phone

Where does Russia must go “a long way”?

As Americans we are born to believe that we are #1- so we don’t have to think for ourselves- it is dangerous for our beloved country.

It is naive, if not delusional to think that everybody wants to live/ be like us.
A lot of Americans don’t want to live like we do now.

Other nations, including Russians may think they want what we have because they can not see the underbelly of “ the beast”- they just don’t know the real costs- and I am not talking just money - of life in the US.

What is a “quality of life” for a Russian? (or insert any nation here vs US)

Is it to have plentiful, cheap food, but laced with all kind of chemicals, biological contamination, and which is not healthy? Causing debilitating diseases? Killing us slowly?

Is it to have 2-3 ++ car households to drive everywhere, pay car loans, car taxes, car insurance, liability insurance? Afraid your teen will die in a car crash? We have to have it as there is no any real effective public transportation system?

Is it to have a huge roomy house but poorly designed and build plywood/ particle board houses with a bedroom for each family member, plus a few for guests visiting once in a while - the one that costs an arm and a leg? To pay a mortgage for the rest of your life? Property taxes - our money being spent by other people? Money to furnish, heat and cool with very expensive utility bills due to our outdated inefficient appliances? HVAC? Maintenance bills?

Is it to have the most expensive but horrible education system in the world? Should be a separate topic.

Do they dream to have our exorbitantly expensive healthcare where’re are placed on drugs for the rest of our life’s? Children on psychoactive drugs?

Perhaps they want our “ freedom”? Where we can not talk openly to our neighbors, colleagues?
( we don’t discuss sex, politics religion, right? We have even more tabu topics now - even getting more dangerous to say what you think and openly say who you are voting for?)

Where “anything you say can be used against you”? Where it is ok for police to lie?
Where you can go to prison for lying to the authorities?
Where we have so many thousands of laws and regulations that can be used against pretty much anyone at any moment? The most obscure laws with dangerous consequences?

What about our judicial system? Do they prefer that their life circumstances are depending on some judge who is dead already who made a bench decision and created a precedent that can be used agains someone 60 years later and in another state? Where in the same situation one is free, another on a death row?
Do they like to spend thousands of dollars to defend themselves if the need arises?

Do they want to have a “ freedom” to get fired on a moment’s notice “ at will” by the employer?
So they can’t pay bills next month?
Do they prefer not to have a guaranteed vacation time? Maternity? You forgot we don’t have a Labor Legislation in place for everyone - they do...

How about lessons in economics 101?
1. It is not about how much money one earns- it is about how much money one can keep
2. It is not about how much money you can keep - it is how much your money canbuy

People all over the world live on much smaller amounts of money than in the US. People seem to live on that amount and have 5-6 children- they seem to have clothes on their backs and are not starving-live in piece and friendship with other villagers, coworkers , helping each other...
Guess those kids turn out ok- why would we import Chinese and Indian workers for our IT industries if they are badly educated?
How come they can do better than us?( and one of major problems in India- a lack of toilets- I am talking about outhouses! they go into the woods!!!)

https://www.worlddata.info/average-income.php

Russians love art, literature, culture, having friends over, they like to travel to see other countries ( only 40% of Americans have passports- just a few years ago it was 15%)
Most of Russians live in a free housing they have gotten in Soviet Union, but they are building better housing which they pay mortgages now as we do..
Russia provides a free healthcare
Good academically sound free education system, including university education

Pensions for all. I mean- for all if you are of a pensioner age.
If you ask them to let you live in Russia- and they let you- you are getting a pension if you are of the right age -and a free healthcare, free public transportation, etc, etc.

Russia and her people are ok, even if they doubt it. There are no perfect societies- their achievements sounds pretty good so far..

We have 700 military bases around the world and a huge” defense” budget -6 figure salaries and perks for all those military bureaucracy- who never saw a day of combat.

Our country now is only good for those with entrepreneurial dreams - about 10% of the world population- it is easy for them in the US to start.
The other group are people with FY money.
We should concentrate on solving our own problems and let Russians be
Well local purchasing power is much higher in any western european country than in Russia, so I do not understand your point. Clearly Germans and Americans can keep more money and buy more for their money as I explained in my previous post but on example of Poland who has higher local purchasing power than Russia anyway.

What does it mean to live like us? Would getting rid of corrupt scumbags who rip off those people since the fall of communism and putting them in jail be something wrong and swap them for new faces that would like to focus themselves on improving people's life instead of feeding those people with propaganda that everyone on the earth wants bad for russians and wants to destroy them, so people instead of seeing who really rips them off focus their whole attention on foreign "enemies" and the governing band can rip people some more. In no other country on the earth number of billionaires grow as fast as in Russia. That is of course at the expense of majority of population.

Listen, I do not claim that United States or Germany are perfect. They have their own problems. But find me a neutral person that would prefer to live in Russia than in those countries. Look how many russians live in Germany and United States and how many germans and americans live in Russia. Here is your answer who creates and give more opportunities to their people.

When russians stop immigrating in mass to United States and Germany then you will know that they made it.

Last edited by WestPreussen; Yesterday at 06:01 PM..
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Old Yesterday, 05:51 PM
 
1,064 posts, read 305,233 times
Reputation: 2895
Quote:
Originally Posted by WestPreussen View Post
Well local purchasing power is much higher in any western european country than in Russia, so I do not understand your point. Clearly Germans and Americans can keep more money and buy more for their money as I explained in my previous post but on example of Poland who has higher local purchasing power than Russia anyway.


When russians stop immigrating in mass to United States and Germany then you will know they made it.
Care to link to a statistic of “mass” Russian immigration? Not that it would be anything wrong with that- they seem to assimilate pretty well, very educated, handsome and they work, not on welfare.
I bet they do it legally too.
I know that you can’t “get the economics” of “ purchasing” power.
Let me give you just one example.

Us median income is $43k, Russia around $12 K.
You pay tax-Trump lowered it a bit - around what-12%? Then SS., then Medicare. You are not done yet.
Then you have your State income tax, property tax.
You need to pay for your health and dental insurance, you pay sales tax, you pay for daycare for your children, or for college for your child, you need to pay for your homeowners, auto and liability insurance, you may have car payments- while the Russian hops on a bus.
And you have not even eaten yet.
You have to pay for thing that Russian is getting for free after paying just 1 reasonably low income tax-so you obviously need more money to afford a relatively similar life style as Russian may have.
There are differences of course- but it is not all about money: they have tiny small housing in Japan too- but you don’t hold it against them? And not saying that Japanese have “a long way to go”?
Can you imagine your life without any or with just a few bills? Wouldn’t it be nice? And not to worry about your kids health emergencies and running out of money?
It does not matter that you received more money than a Russian did - they have more free stuff, they don’t pay as much in taxes (those US military bases, weaponry and planes costs money to you, we have bigger government, etc) and their cars, furniture, utilities cost less in their country. So you are closer economically than you think
http://worldpopulationreview.com/cou...me-by-country/

Last edited by Nik4me; Yesterday at 06:21 PM..
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Old Yesterday, 06:18 PM
 
Location: Preussen
412 posts, read 113,958 times
Reputation: 307
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nik4me View Post
Care to link to a statistic of “mass” Russian immigration? Not that it would be anything wrong with that- they seem to assimilate pretty well, very educated, handsome and they work, not on welfare.
I bet they do it legally too.
I know that you can’t “get the economics” of “ purchasing” power.
Let me give you just one example.

Let’s say you earned $5000 a month( btw- many Americans make much, much less)
You pay tax-Trump lowered it a bit - around what-12%? Then SS., then Medicare. You are not done yet.
Then you have your State income tax, property tax.
You need to pay for your health and dental insurance, you pay sales tax, you pay for daycare for your children, or for college for your child, you need to pay for your homeowners, auto and liability insurance, you may have car payments- while the Russian hops on a bus.
And you have not even eaten yet.
You have to pay for thing that Russian is getting for free after paying just 1 reasonably low income tax-so you obviously need more money to afford a relatively similar life style as Russian may have.
There are differences of course- but it is not all about money: they have tiny small housing in ajaoan too- but you don’t hold it against them? And not saying that Japanese are not advanced...
You pass them all the time in Germany. Only Polish and turkish languages you can hear more often than russian on the streets. You can check the data in the internet. And there are plenty of them in the United States too. I think over 3 million of people report themselves as russian and contrary to other european immigration to United States which took place mostly at the turn of 19th and 20th century. Russian immigrants came mostly in recent times than that.

Well you need to have some statistics to compare. Purchasing power comparision was started by russian poster I think. No statistic is perfect. But you need them to compare. Otherwise it is just your opinion.
Here is another statistic, that many people prefer. Human development index.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...elopment_Index
Russia is obviously much lower than Germany and France from big european countries.

Russian pay taxes too. Russians are not getting anything for free. From what do you think are their healtcare and universities maintained? From their taxes. That's right. It is not for free. I do not understand why many americans think that in Europe healthcare and education is for free. Nothing in this world is for free.

Anyway as you can see clearly more russians immigrate to those countries than germans and americans to Russia. This is the biggest proof, where life is better. I do not hold sizes of houses of people against them. Many germans live in blocks.

I mean I cannot believe that someone would even doubt that americans have higher standard of living than russians. What is going to be next? Will someone argue that nigerians or vietnamese have higher standard of living than people in the west.

Many russians, when they first came were on welfare. Some are still today just like Poles. Not only arabs use welfare.

Last edited by WestPreussen; Yesterday at 07:08 PM..
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Old Yesterday, 07:40 PM
 
11,229 posts, read 16,453,165 times
Reputation: 12810
OK, I'll sum this up as follows:


For hundreds of years, well over 700 at least, Russia was labeled by "West" as stupid, bloody, retarded, backward, undeveloped swamp. Something like that, varies from writing style to writing style and who pays for it.


For same hundreds of years Russia was invaded at least 3-4 times a century, sometimes more. Betrayed countless times. Used countless times. Saved enlightened Europe from blood bath and chaos on quite a few occasions.


That said, RUSSIA WAS, IS AND WILL BE. While "western" countries came and parished or fell down to their knees and bowed to conquerors.



And that simple fact that none of deniers can deny, speaks for the country like nothing else. So best YOU can do is to let them be and be the way they want to be. None of your business, go clean mess in your own backyards first, before claiming to be all knowing judges to someone else.
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Old Yesterday, 11:56 PM
 
Location: Seattle WA, USA
4,230 posts, read 2,427,813 times
Reputation: 2891
Quote:
Originally Posted by WestPreussen View Post
You pass them all the time in Germany. Only Polish and turkish languages you can hear more often than russian on the streets. You can check the data in the internet. And there are plenty of them in the United States too. I think over 3 million of people report themselves as russian and contrary to other european immigration to United States which took place mostly at the turn of 19th and 20th century. Russian immigrants came mostly in recent times than that.

Well you need to have some statistics to compare. Purchasing power comparision was started by russian poster I think. No statistic is perfect. But you need them to compare. Otherwise it is just your opinion.
Here is another statistic, that many people prefer. Human development index.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...elopment_Index
Russia is obviously much lower than Germany and France from big european countries.

Russian pay taxes too. Russians are not getting anything for free. From what do you think are their healtcare and universities maintained? From their taxes. That's right. It is not for free. I do not understand why many americans think that in Europe healthcare and education is for free. Nothing in this world is for free.

Anyway as you can see clearly more russians immigrate to those countries than germans and americans to Russia. This is the biggest proof, where life is better. I do not hold sizes of houses of people against them. Many germans live in blocks.

I mean I cannot believe that someone would even doubt that americans have higher standard of living than russians. What is going to be next? Will someone argue that nigerians or vietnamese have higher standard of living than people in the west.

Many russians, when they first came were on welfare. Some are still today just like Poles. Not only arabs use welfare.
You are correct, but also a bit disingenuous. Most of those Russians (including my family) emigrated right after the collapse of the Soviet Union during the 90s when Russia and other post soviet states were at their lowest point. The economy was in ruin and many people didn't see a future for themselves. Plus with all the censorship many Russians were curios what the west was all about. The wave of Russians emigrating has substantially decreased sense then, however I have heard that there has been an uptick since 2014 but it's probably no where near as bad as it was in the 90s. Furthermore many of those Russians who moved to Germany are of German back ground so they wanted to return to their ancestral homeland. Germany has recently made it harder for these people to move to Germany so instead they are settling for Kaliningrad (eastern Prussia).

As Russia slowly rebuilds its self many Russians will eventually move back, but most will probably stay as they have already built a life for themselves and grown roots. But for now from what I hear living standards are substantially higher in the US than in Russia, and life expectancy is also higher, my dad who is in his 50s, roughly half of his (male) school mates who stayed behind are already dead, so there is that also.

Also another thing to point out is Eastern Germany is not all that great from what I hear, most east Germans have fled to the west and left the east to die and no investments to improve living conditions there. So if rich and prosperous Germany is having a hard time modernizing east Germany, how do you expect Russia to do even better for a much larger territory and amount of people.
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Old Today, 12:39 AM
 
Location: Russia
363 posts, read 57,289 times
Reputation: 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by WestPreussen View Post
What?

Are you seriously going to argue that standard of living is higher in Russia than in France, Australia or Canada? The prices might be cheaper in Russia but wages are also much smaller there and inequality much between poor and rich much higher there which boost their real outcome. Therefore the standard of living in Russia is clearly worse than in western countries. No way does Russia come close in standard of living to any of the first world western nation.
I was talking about GDP calculated by PPP, not PPP per capita.

Lists of countries by gross domestic product, calculated on purchasing power parity (GDP PPP) — a list in which countries are arranged according to the size of gross domestic product, that is, the value of all final goods and services sold in the economy in one year (in dollars) obtained by conversion at purchasing power parity (PPP), that is, adjusted for price level in the economy (and therefore the purchasing power of the currency). Lists are given in the versions of the International monetary Fund and the world Bank.

Lists of countries by GDP (PPP) in billions of us dollars

1. IMF. The first table shows GDP (PPP) as calculated by the International monetary Fund. The table shows the 190 member States of the IMF, as well as the Hong Kong Special administrative region (part of China) and the Republic of China (Taiwan), which is not a member of the IMF. There are no data from IMF member States on Somalia, which has actually collapsed; there are also no data on Syria and Venezuela, for which the IMF does not currently estimate GDP.

2. WB. The second table shows GDP (PPP) data for 193 countries from the world Bank.

When analyzing these tables, it should be borne in mind that countries use different systems of national accounts. Australia, Canada, USA, Mexico, Korea, Iceland, Norway, Switzerland, New Zealand, South Africa and all EU countries have already switched to the new 2008 SNA prepared under the auspices of the UN, the European Commission, OECD, IMF and the world Bank. Since the end of 2014, all OECD countries calculate GDP according to the 2008 SNA, except Turkey, which plans to recalculate from 2015, and Chile and Japan, which intend to switch to the new methodology from 2016[1].

In 2016, Rosstat presented Russia's GDP for 2015 in accordance with the new international SNA-2008, and also recalculated the GDP for 2014.

The main difference between the 2008 SNA is that it additionally takes into account intellectual property, derivative financial instruments, R & d costs and armaments. Thus, the addition of new accounting items leads to a significant increase in macroeconomic indicators (including GDP), especially for countries with highly developed technologies. This may serve as a justification for the additional issue of cash [2].


List of the IMF https://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft...PPGDP&grp=0&a=

2017 (billion $)
1.China - 23157
2.USA - 19519
3.India - 9583
4.Japan - 5420
5.Germany - 4176
6.Russia - 4036

2018 (billion $)
1.China - 25279
2.USA - 20580
3.India - 10485
4.Japan - 5597
5.Germany - 4343
6.Russia - 4227

List of the WB https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.PP.CD

2017 (billion $)
1.China - 23267
2.USA - 19485
3.India - 9597
4.Japan - 5320
5.Germany - 4346
6.Russia - 3784

2018 (billion $)
1.China - 25362
2.USA - 20494
3.India - 10498
4.Japan - 5415
5.Germany - 4456
6.Russia - 4051
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Old Today, 12:51 AM
 
3,048 posts, read 1,288,366 times
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Soviet scientists made significant contributions in many fields. Off the top of my head, I know that AVL Trees and linear optimization were both invented by Soviet mathematicians, and are relevant in modern computer science. It's shame that appreciation for the sciences is slowly declining in modern Russia.
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Old Today, 12:57 AM
 
Location: Russia
363 posts, read 57,289 times
Reputation: 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by WestPreussen View Post
Well local purchasing power is much higher in any western european country than in Russia, so I do not understand your point. Clearly Germans and Americans can keep more money and buy more for their money as I explained in my previous post but on example of Poland who has higher local purchasing power than Russia anyway.

What does it mean to live like us? Would getting rid of corrupt scumbags who rip off those people since the fall of communism and putting them in jail be something wrong and swap them for new faces that would like to focus themselves on improving people's life instead of feeding those people with propaganda that everyone on the earth wants bad for russians and wants to destroy them, so people instead of seeing who really rips them off focus their whole attention on foreign "enemies" and the governing band can rip people some more. In no other country on the earth number of billionaires grow as fast as in Russia. That is of course at the expense of majority of population.

Listen, I do not claim that United States or Germany are perfect. They have their own problems. But find me a neutral person that would prefer to live in Russia than in those countries. Look how many russians live in Germany and United States and how many germans and americans live in Russia. Here is your answer who creates and give more opportunities to their people.

When russians stop immigrating in mass to United States and Germany then you will know that they made it.
One of them





Last edited by Zimogor; Today at 02:07 AM..
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Old Today, 05:04 AM
Status: "Trump Resistance - The (establishment) Empire Strikes Back" (set 23 days ago)
 
Location: New York Area
17,502 posts, read 6,843,628 times
Reputation: 13477
Quote:
Originally Posted by ukrkoz View Post
And that simple fact that none of deniers can deny, speaks for the country like nothing else. So best YOU can do is to let them be and be the way they want to be. None of your business, go clean mess in your own backyards first, before claiming to be all knowing judges to someone else.
Then why does Putin feel the need to build troll farms and have people assassinated overseas.
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Old Today, 09:07 AM
 
Location: Preussen
412 posts, read 113,958 times
Reputation: 307
Quote:
Originally Posted by grega94 View Post
You are correct, but also a bit disingenuous. Most of those Russians (including my family) emigrated right after the collapse of the Soviet Union during the 90s when Russia and other post soviet states were at their lowest point. The economy was in ruin and many people didn't see a future for themselves. Plus with all the censorship many Russians were curios what the west was all about. The wave of Russians emigrating has substantially decreased sense then, however I have heard that there has been an uptick since 2014 but it's probably no where near as bad as it was in the 90s. Furthermore many of those Russians who moved to Germany are of German back ground so they wanted to return to their ancestral homeland. Germany has recently made it harder for these people to move to Germany so instead they are settling for Kaliningrad (eastern Prussia).

As Russia slowly rebuilds its self many Russians will eventually move back, but most will probably stay as they have already built a life for themselves and grown roots. But for now from what I hear living standards are substantially higher in the US than in Russia, and life expectancy is also higher, my dad who is in his 50s, roughly half of his (male) school mates who stayed behind are already dead, so there is that also.

Also another thing to point out is Eastern Germany is not all that great from what I hear, most east Germans have fled to the west and left the east to die and no investments to improve living conditions there. So if rich and prosperous Germany is having a hard time modernizing east Germany, how do you expect Russia to do even better for a much larger territory and amount of people.
Well every country has poorer, less prosperous areas. Those in the west too. Deep south in United States. East Germany, South Italy, Andalusia in Spain, For UK I think Wales. East Germany suffered from communism like all former communists countries and it is not that easy to even them with west Germany. But for example infrastructure like highways is better there than in west germany because it is all new.
But we must compare poorest Germany regions with poorest Russia regions. And how does Russia look then in Siberia for example? Definitely much worse than east Germany. United States has double russia's population and Japan also comes close to Russia and has pretty much no resources, Germany with 83 million people is also a big country, so having big population is not an excuse in the case of providing good standard of living for its citizens.

As for those russians with german background. No. There was not any nostalgia about returning to their homeland. They had usually some partial german ancestry, which they simply used in order to get a better life. The same was with Poles who had some german ancestry. Those people were 100 percent russians. Cultural link to Germany was all gone. They could not speak the language, there was nothing german about them, They were assimilated into russian culture in 100 percent and you would not differ them from other russians. They just used their opportunity for better life and good for them. Their descendants will assimilate into german population. You must also remember that Russia is not an european union's member, therefore it is not that easy for them to immigrate to Germany or England like that is for Poles. There are already a lot of them in Germany and United States with restrictions. And there would be surely many more of them if you completely abolished restrictions in immigration for them.

And I know what you say about your father's mates being already dead despite young age. My uncle worked with some russians when he lived in Germany. He is 56 now. All died in their early to mid 50s. Alcohol "culture" is a big problem in eastern Europe but it seem russians take it to the extreme.

Last edited by WestPreussen; Today at 10:04 AM..
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