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There's a truly exceptional coffee-table book that covers every detail of the Titanic and her two sister ships. The perfect balance between images/presentation and factual overload, IMVHO.
Titanic: An Illustrated History by Ballard and others. Cheap on ABEbooks etc.
That sounds really nice. My neighbor has a scale model of the Titanic. It's in a plexiglass container floating on water. It intrigues me to see it--so much to think about.
Never to be forgotten. Was it because they were so sure of themselves? The captain went too fast? The other ships didn't believe the distress signals because, after all, who would ever believe the Titanic could be in trouble? Not enough lifeboats to hold everyone but they had all they needed to meet the requirements in those days. Many went unfilled anyway because people felt safer on the great ship than in a lifeboat out in the dark ice cold water in the middle of the night.
Women and children first. But the poor people in 3rd class were locked in down below until someone remembered them and unlocked the door to the stairs so some could escape. My grandmother and her children were working class English and IF they had gotten tickets for the Titanic, there's a good chance they never would have gotten out. My grandfather, already in the US, trying to get tickets for them, was told it was "overbooked." Third class was sold out.
Third class was actually pretty good compared to how the average poor person lived. They ate at long tables and were waited on, something that they'd never experienced before. Of course they couldn't go up on the fancy upper decks and mingle with the rich and famous but their accommodations were decent and they were getting a trip that would take them to their destination, or so they thought.
Now a violin from one of the orchestra members sells for many thousands of dollars at auction. All members of the orchestra perished that night and it is said that they kept playing as the ship sank. A locket from the same person that he left with his fiance is being auctioned off after having been kept in that family all this time. That will be worth a lot too. There remains a fascination with this epic tragedy and hopefully some lessons have been learned. The captain went down with the ship and from many accounts was a hero. The radio man who kept sending the message is a hero and how terrifying it must have been to sit and desperately try to reach help as the water poured in the the equipment began to fail.
The remains of the ship lie at the bottom of the sea, a grave yard. Let it rest there. Artifacts can be brought up as curious keepsakes and bits of tangible history, but let the remains of the ship and the bodies rest in peace.
Never to be forgotten. Was it because they were so sure of themselves? The captain went too fast? The other ships didn't believe the distress signals because, after all, who would ever believe the Titanic could be in trouble? Not enough lifeboats to hold everyone but they had all they needed to meet the requirements in those days. Many went unfilled anyway because people felt safer on the great ship than in a lifeboat out in the dark ice cold water in the middle of the night.
Women and children first. But the poor people in 3rd class were locked in down below until someone remembered them and unlocked the door to the stairs so some could escape. My grandmother and her children were working class English and IF they had gotten tickets for the Titanic, there's a good chance they never would have gotten out. My grandfather, already in the US, trying to get tickets for them, was told it was "overbooked." Third class was sold out.
One of the things I find interesting about the Titanic is that everything you've described here can be, and probably should be, attributed to carelessness or inertia, rather than any kind of sinister intent. Captain going too fast? Standard practice in those days, with the intent being to get clear of an ice field as quickly as possible. Didn't believe the distress signals? Why would they, when they were coming from the "unsinkable" Titanic? (It's quite fortunate that Captain Rostron of the Carpathia believed the calls right away.) Not enough lifeboats? Easy enough for the bureaucrats of the Board of Trade to forgot to update their regulations, even as ships grew ever larger. Unfilled boats? Between the officers who (incorrectly) thought that fully laden boats would buckle, and passengers who would rather stay on a warm ship than bob about on the cold ocean in an open boat, it's a wonder that anyone was willing to get into the early boats.
Even the Third Class being locked below can be explained, albeit rather coldly. The Captain knew that there were not enough lifeboats. Even if every boat got away (which was by no means a certainty, at any point in the crisis), and got away full, roughly half of the people on the Titanic were doomed, no matter what. Given that *someone* had to be in that doomed half, there's a sort of perverse logic in locking some people down below, so that they can't get in the way and cause a panic and make it impossible to safely evacuate the other half. Cold and heartless, I know, and I have no basis for assuming that this calculation entered the Captain's mind. But it could have. Sometimes, when you're up against the wall, you do what you have to do.
Most were probably or from England, or Britain. They went from all over Europe, to mainly Liverpool, to get a passage to the USA.
There were poor passengers from England, and there were poor passengers from other areas. England's poor boarded mainly in Southampton. Continental Europe's poor boarded mainly at Cherbourg. And Ireland's poor boarded mainly in Queenstown.
Women and children first. [b]But the poor people in 3rd class were locked in down below until someone remembered them and unlocked the door to the stairs so some could escape.
Actually, there’s no real evidence to support the idea that 3rd class passengers were deliberately locked in, to prevent them from reaching the boat deck. That’s something that Cameron’s movie got wrong, but unfortunately it’s become accepted as factual since then.
At the time of the sinking there was a lot of panic going around. 3rd class got the short end of the stick in that they were often neglected and information was not properly related to them, but they were not deliberately locked in. Standard protocol at the time did require that all classes be segregated (largely for immigration purposes, to ensure that diseases would not spread), however there were no hard barriers in place.
The main problem was that many of those in third class didn’t speak proper English, so that added to the confusion. On top of that, there was a belief by many, that they would be safer onboard the ship.
Quote:
My grandmother and her children were working class English and IF they had gotten tickets for the Titanic, there's a good chance they never would have gotten out. My grandfather, already in the US, trying to get tickets for them, was told it was "overbooked." Third class was sold out.
I remember you mentioning this last year. It’s definitely something that has picked my curiosity, as the ship was far from overbooked. Some passengers were transferred from other ships.
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Originally Posted by bus man
One of the things I find interesting about the Titanic is that everything you've described here can be, and probably should be, attributed to carelessness or inertia, rather than any kind of sinister intent. Captain going too fast? Standard practice in those days, with the intent being to get clear of an ice field as quickly as possible. Didn't believe the distress signals? Why would they, when they were coming from the "unsinkable" Titanic? (It's quite fortunate that Captain Rostron of the Carpathia believed the calls right away.) Not enough lifeboats? Easy enough for the bureaucrats of the Board of Trade to forgot to update their regulations, even as ships grew ever larger. Unfilled boats? Between the officers who (incorrectly) thought that fully laden boats would buckle, and passengers who would rather stay on a warm ship than bob about on the cold ocean in an open boat, it's a wonder that anyone was willing to get into the early boats.
The Titanic was carrying enough lifeboats as per the requirements of the time. Any vessel that’s over 10 000 tons would be required to have 16 lifeboats. Titanic at 46 000 tons had a total of 20. However, even if the ship had enough to accommodate everyone on board, the death toll wouldn’t have changed dramatically. There wasn’t enough time to properly launch every single boat. The last 2, were practically swept up by the water when the ship foundered.
Quote:
Even the Third Class being locked below can be explained, albeit rather coldly. The Captain knew that there were not enough lifeboats. Even if every boat got away (which was by no means a certainty, at any point in the crisis), and got away full, roughly half of the people on the Titanic were doomed, no matter what. Given that *someone* had to be in that doomed half, there's a sort of perverse logic in locking some people down below, so that they can't get in the way and cause a panic and make it impossible to safely evacuate the other half. Cold and heartless, I know, and I have no basis for assuming that this calculation entered the Captain's mind. But it could have. Sometimes, when you're up against the wall, you do what you have to do.
See my response above as to the pertaining myth of 3rd class being locked.
Never to be forgotten. Was it because they were so sure of themselves? The captain went too fast? The other ships didn't believe the distress signals because, after all, who would ever believe the Titanic could be in trouble? Not enough lifeboats to hold everyone but they had all they needed to meet the requirements in those days. Many went unfilled anyway because people felt safer on the great ship than in a lifeboat out in the dark ice cold water in the middle of the night.
Women and children first. But the poor people in 3rd class were locked in down below until someone remembered them and unlocked the door to the stairs so some could escape. My grandmother and her children were working class English and IF they had gotten tickets for the Titanic, there's a good chance they never would have gotten out. My grandfather, already in the US, trying to get tickets for them, was told it was "overbooked." Third class was sold out.
Third class was actually pretty good compared to how the average poor person lived. They ate at long tables and were waited on, something that they'd never experienced before. Of course they couldn't go up on the fancy upper decks and mingle with the rich and famous but their accommodations were decent and they were getting a trip that would take them to their destination, or so they thought.
Now a violin from one of the orchestra members sells for many thousands of dollars at auction. All members of the orchestra perished that night and it is said that they kept playing as the ship sank. A locket from the same person that he left with his fiance is being auctioned off after having been kept in that family all this time. That will be worth a lot too. There remains a fascination with this epic tragedy and hopefully some lessons have been learned. The captain went down with the ship and from many accounts was a hero. The radio man who kept sending the message is a hero and how terrifying it must have been to sit and desperately try to reach help as the water poured in the the equipment began to fail.
The remains of the ship lie at the bottom of the sea, a grave yard. Let it rest there. Artifacts can be brought up as curious keepsakes and bits of tangible history, but let the remains of the ship and the bodies rest in peace.
The Titanic is slowly disintegrating, in a few decades there will be nothing. Even that deep and cold, microbes are busy eating everything away. The artifacts? Well it's too recent to have any real historic value so it's value is only in association with a tragedy.
The sinking took lives in all classes, particularly from the men. My great grandfather-in-law, returning in to the US from England, was in second class and did not survive. I've wrote about this before, the unique thing was listening to my elderly grand mother-in-law, who was a child living in the US when her father perished, complaining about the Titanic movie in the late 90s (she passed maybe a few years later): "there making another damn movie???". For her there was no mystery, romanticism, or even particular interest in the Titanic. It was simply an event where her father died many years ago.
The Titanic was carrying enough lifeboats as per the requirements of the time. Any vessel that’s over 10 000 tons would be required to have 16 lifeboats. Titanic at 46 000 tons had a total of 20. However, even if the ship had enough to accommodate everyone on board, the death toll wouldn’t have changed dramatically. There wasn’t enough time to properly launch every single boat. The last 2, were practically swept up by the water when the ship foundered.
"As per the regulations of the time." Precisely my point. The Titanic was not required to have anywhere near enough lifeboats for everyone, thanks to the somnolent Board of Trade. In fact, she had 4 more than the law required, they being the 4 collapsible boats which, collectively, saved about 120 people. So instead of castigating the White Star Line for shortchanging their magnificent ship (I know you did not do this, Milky Way, but some people have), they should actually be given credit for going above and beyond what was required.
It's debatable about whether or not more lifeboats would have made a difference, and we will never "know." But I believe that it would have, and here's why. On the actual ship, where there weren't enough lifeboats for everyone, they had to do the whole "women and children first" thing. Which meant, in practical terms, time lost while husbands said goodbye to their wives and children. If there had been enough boats, the officers could have simply herded everyone into them as soon as they showed up on deck. I think that this would have resulted in each individual boat being loaded and lowered in less time, which would have freed up more time to load and lower more boats. Maybe they couldn't gotten all of them off, but at least they could have gotten more of them off, and thus saved more people.
Actually, there’s no real evidence to support the idea that 3rd class passengers were deliberately locked in, to prevent them from reaching the boat deck. That’s something that Cameron’s movie got wrong, but unfortunately it’s become accepted as factual since then.
It wasn't just Cameron's movie. A Night to Remember showed the Third Class locked behind gates. So did S.O.S. Titanic. Walter Lord's book did describe some Third Class passengers being locked behind gates or refused passage through others. It may not have been as pervasive as the movies would have one believe, but it's more than just a myth.
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