Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I think that Rose didn't forgive him for hiding her at a home in Wisconsin, rather than the lobotomy itself. Also, we forget that it's possible for one to have both selfish and benevolent motivations for a given course of action. It wasn't that Rosemary was developmentally delayed, after the family returned from the UK she regressed, apparently developed epilepsy, became violent, etc...
From another thread about this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CA4Now
Joe was not trying to help her as much as keep her (Rosemary) from embarrassing the family name politically. He may, however have been mislead. Kathleen (Kick) interviewed someone who was writing a series on the federal mental hospital in Washington, and she quizzed him on the then-new experimental surgery that was done on severely mentally disturbed patients, without revealing why she was interested. She was told that after the results, patients "don't worry so much, but it left them gone as a person." Kick told her mother, "Oh, no, it's nothing we want done for Rosie." As Rosemary's behavior worsened, Joe then went to a different specialist.
Obviously, thank god they're not a thing anymore, but at the time where it were a thing do you think most of those that performed it honestly, and genuinely thought they were doing good, or do you think most were just very sadistic? I get medical care was different back then, but to me, no one with a conscious at all could have ever thought sticking an ice pick into someone's brain would in anyway be beneficial.
All that I wish for is the establishment or restoration of mental facilities and making them independent living facilities for severely mentally ill people away from general society and doing so in a way that does not expose them to abuse, but I suppose that would be just about impossible in reality.
When I was 13, I underwent what is called "conversion therapy." By today's standards under the UN Conventions of the Rights of the Child, it is torture. Strapped to a table, left in dark rooms, in isolation cells*, in hosptials, it still haunts me and I still have flashbacks even though it was over 50 years ago. Then I was sent to Edgemeade which if you look up on this site, some survivors of that experience are reconnecting. In the end, the director of Edgemeade was sentenced to prison on multiple felonies for child sexual abuse. Are psychiatrists cruel? Some were. I can attest to that. (I think it was a god complex saying they understood the mind, a place where no one back then could actually hardly look in an era before MRI's and such.)
* Note: in one of the hospitals I was in, my treating doctor was taken to federal court for imprisonment of a patient. As a 13 year old, sometimes I would be allowed to eat with some of the other patients. I recall even now the dread they had of ECT without being sedated.
seems her lobotomy was done as she was an embarrassment to her father.. sadly the girl was left a vegetable after the procedure.. a beautiful girl too. When Rosemary was 23 years of age, doctors told her father that a form of psychosurgery known as a lobotomy would help calm her mood swings and stop her occasional violent outbursts.[20][21] Joseph Kennedy decided that Rosemary should have a lobotomy; however, he did not inform his wife of this decision until after the procedure was completed.[19] Because Rosemary had been diagnosed as "mentally retarded", only her father's consent was necessary.[22] The procedure took place in November 1941.[23][24] James W. Watts, who carried out the procedure with Walter Freeman (both of George Washington University School of Medicine), described the procedure to author Ronald Kessler as follows:
We went through the top of the head, I think Rosemary was awake. She had a mild tranquilizer. I made a surgical incision in the brain through the skull. It was near the front. It was on both sides. We just made a small incision, no more than an inch." The instrument Dr. Watts used looked like a butter knife. He swung it up and down to cut brain tissue. "We put an instrument inside", he said. As Dr. Watts cut, Dr. Freeman asked Rosemary some questions. For example, he asked her to recite the Lord's Prayer or sing "God Bless America" or count backward. "We made an estimate on how far to cut based on how she responded." When Rosemary began to become incoherent, they stopped.[25]
It quickly became apparent that the procedure had not been successful. Kennedy's mental capacity diminished to that of a two-year-old child. She could not walk or speak intelligibly and was incontinent I had read she was sneaking out at night and flirting with men.. .. funny old world isnt it when Kennedy men didnt have lobotomies..
Last edited by dizzybint; 08-25-2020 at 01:57 AM..
How did Jo Kennedy live with himself... and why did his wife stay with him... he Jo the good Catholic who cheated on his wife all through their marriage.. makes me laugh. He also refused to go to Kick or Kathleens wedding.. what a nice man he was ....he denied anyone to visit the girl for years.. only when he couldnt speak himself and took ill did his wife visit the girl. maybe in the end Jo got to feel something of how his daughter had suffered for years because of him For twenty years, the rest of the Kennedy family had no idea what happened to Rosie and never investigated, taking the word of the patriarch.
After Joe suffered a stroke in December 1961 and became mute but for grunts, Rose learned the whereabouts of her oldest daughter when Joe was no longer physically capable of paying bills. He was to die in 1969.
Rose gave the nuns permission to take Rosie out shopping, a great lifelong love of Rose's. Rosie was now allowed out to restaurants and social outings – improving her moods and behavior.
Rosie loved window shopping, looking at brightly colored clothes, eating out at restaurants. There was now some joy in her life now.
Rose decided to visit and Rosie waited for her arrival with two nuns at the airport in Milwaukee. When Rosie sighted her mother deboarding the plane, she ran to her. Rose opened her arms to greet her daughter and Rosie raised her arms and beat her mother on the chest shrieking.
'Rosemary knew her mother had not been with her when she needed her most.' She was very angry.
Rosie always spoke of herself as 'she'.
Last edited by dizzybint; 08-25-2020 at 02:24 AM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
