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I'm no historian, especially on the war in Vietnam. But I do have concern that what that war taught the world, is that the best way to beat the U.S. is by turning the population against itself (as happened primarily on college campuses in the end years of the war (and I've got a suspicion that strife was based more on the hatred for the draft than it was for the war itself).
Didn't using things like Agent Orange and Napalm turn both the South Vietnamese and many Americans against the war? From what I've recently read war tactics like these hurt the U.S military image.
Didn't using things like Agent Orange and Napalm turn both the South Vietnamese and many Americans against the war? From what I've recently read war tactics like these hurt the U.S military image.
I do remember protests (at Berkley?) that took over the school Lab, I think it was doing work for (Dow Chemical?) on napalm and defoliants, both used heavily during the war. But what I remember best were all the students burning their draft cards, with many moving to Canada rather than be drafted. I missed the draft by only a year or two, I remember being grateful for that. But had my number been called, I would have gone, or so I believe today.
Vietnam was probably the biggest divide in America since the Civil War, I can't imagine that level of resistance to the draft in WWII. Interestingly, they were all Baby Boomers, weren't they? I did my career with a bunch of guys who were Vietnam Vets (between five and ten years older than me), their experiences varied widely.
The 1960's, looking back, seem to have been the beginning of the end for "true" cohesiveness in the USA, it seems we've been drifting apart further and further since then. I have to wonder, looking at 2020, if we're going to survive as a single, unified country all that much longer. Or, maybe it's simply growing pains that make us need to stir the pot every so often, to remind us all how valuable domestic tranquility really is. I need to look up how many other countries experienced Balkanization and came out the other side intact.
Didn't using things like Agent Orange and Napalm turn both the South Vietnamese and many Americans against the war? From what I've recently read war tactics like these hurt the U.S military image.
As I remember, the impact of Agent Orange, a defoliant not a weapon, wasn't really known until after the war. I might be wrong.
Napalm, an incendiary weapon, has been in use since WWII in many conflicts and by almost every military force in the world.
You think about why Vietnam turn to communism because the same applies to any movement these days. The poor people were ignored by ineffective corrupt government. When America decide to help they poured and lined the pockets of corrupt politicians there and the poor people got nothing. Instead we send troops there and not knowing who the enemy was and they bulled and killed many innocent civilians. So it became well known that most American soldiers were trouble for peasants and villagers who would rather help the Vietcongs than Americans. We always go to any conflict without any thought about the political and social implications.
Why does so many countries hate Americans? If we were supposed to help them. Why did we go to Middle East with troops when they never attacked us?
This was a long war by communist nationalists and others that goes back at least to 1945 just after the Japanese surrendered Vietnam back to the French. With so much momentum already in place protracted combat was inevitable irregardless of any peace initiatives.
There were British and French troops in Vietnam almost immediately after the war. And American assistance with military hardware and airlifts. Some Japanese forces stationed in Vietnam actually were reorganized and allowed to fight the Viet Minh and other nationalist forces.
As much as people were against the Japanese but they do a far better job handling colonies than America or the Brits. Many former Japanese colonies are some of the best nations in Asia right now. Because Japanese push their system of education while America just pushes socialism and corruption. Look at all of the colonies on our payroll they did jack squat. While former Japanese colonies are now some of the most democratic and wealthy countries that still uses Japanese education.
As much as people were against the Japanese but they do a far better job handling colonies than America or the Brits. Many former Japanese colonies are some of the best nations in Asia right now. Because Japanese push their system of education while America just pushes socialism and corruption. Look at all of the colonies on our payroll they did jack squat. While former Japanese colonies are now some of the most democratic and wealthy countries that still uses Japanese education.
Come on. The former Japanese colonies were better handled than those colonies under the control of the British and the US? The Japanese used slave labor from all the colonies they held. They forced local women into prostitution to service their troops. People starved or faced malnutrition because local food stocks were stolen and redirected to Japanese armed forces. On and on.
As much as people were against the Japanese but they do a far better job handling colonies than America or the Brits. Many former Japanese colonies are some of the best nations in Asia right now. Because Japanese push their system of education while America just pushes socialism and corruption. Look at all of the colonies on our payroll they did jack squat. While former Japanese colonies are now some of the most democratic and wealthy countries that still uses Japanese education.
Not sure what "colonies" you're referring to. Guam is almost too small to mention but is doing OK, I think. We took over the Philippines after the Spanish American war, lost them to Japan in 1942, but then drove out the Japanese and eventually restored them as their own independent country; Hawaii is now its own state and is quite prosperous; Puerto Rico is poor, but about half of its citizens live on the mainland, and they have the right to vote for independence any time they want to (but tellingly don't); so that leaves what, the U.S. Virgin Islands? Doing OK the last I looked. Ask the South Koreans if they would like to be part of the North under the Jong IL family; or Germany and Japan, they are some of the best countries in the world after recovering from WWII via the Marshall plan (WWII was by the way, their own doing). Taiwan is happy to be protected from mainland China. The whole argument of the U.S. colonizing, using up countries and leaving them destitute just isn't borne out by history, although it makes a great propaganda argument for our converting to socialism, or worse (sigh). The world is absolutely better from having the influence of the U.S. over the past century, and to be honest, we've done TOO much on behalf of other countries, and are suffering from it now. Or would it have been better if Israel had been pushed into the sea? Or all of Europe part of the USSR?
As much as people were against the Japanese but they do a far better job handling colonies than America or the Brits. Many former Japanese colonies are some of the best nations in Asia right now. Because Japanese push their system of education while America just pushes socialism and corruption. Look at all of the colonies on our payroll they did jack squat. While former Japanese colonies are now some of the most democratic and wealthy countries that still uses Japanese education.
Asian's have a cultural discipline fine tuned through centuries, a millennium, some of it related to religious influences. But Japanese didn't really colonize until the early 20th century. During that short time, particularly in the 30's and 40's, they were brutal to the extreme.
They left no endearing memory to these "colonies" (which were really classified as military occupation) except memories of exploitation, slavery, destruction, rape, and mass-murder.
Come on. The former Japanese colonies were better handled than those colonies under the control of the British and the US? The Japanese used slave labor from all the colonies they held. They forced local women into prostitution to service their troops. People starved or faced malnutrition because local food stocks were stolen and redirected to Japanese armed forces. On and on.
That's during the early invasion years. Don't just look at the atrocities in the beginning. You look at Korea, Taiwan both former colonies are now tech super powers. Once Japan took over and and the soldiers mostly left they created government using their style and education system that adopted their system as well. You obviously only followed the Japanese atrocities but I'm only focusing on the good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714
Asian's have a cultural discipline fine tuned through centuries, a millennium, some of it related to religious influences. But Japanese didn't really colonize until the early 20th century. During that short time, particularly in the 30's and 40's, they were brutal to the extreme.
They left no endearing memory to these "colonies" (which were really classified as military occupation) except memories of exploitation, slavery, destruction, rape, and mass-murder.
Absolutely, but they also wanted to modernize those countries that were backwards. They believed they were the super power in Asia and want to cultivate the colonies.
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