Today's United States vs Ancient Rome (WW2, influence, general, Mexico)

[John Walmsley]

There is an interesting 2006 recorded interview on the NPR website titled Drawing Parallels Between Ancient Rome and the US Today. In the interview, Robert Harris, author of several historical novels, including one called Imperium, says that, in researching his book, he found several parallels between situations in ancient Rome and those growing out of the 9/11 event. During the rule of Pompey the Great, "stateless desperadoes," (actually Cilician pirates), brazenly attacked Roman shipping fairly close to the city of Rome. This caused great consternation among the populace and the Roman senate. Despite bitter debate in the Roman senate, fear carried the day, and the people were willing to surrender their liberties and their control over the government and grant sweeping new powers to Pompey. Eventually, Pompey was able to neutralize the threat, but the people's powers were never returned. Julius Caesar and his successors inherited the same powers.

[bchris02]

I've also wondered if America will become a dictatorship before it falls. While Bush posesses some qualities of a dictator, he is not yet on that level. By dictator, I mean a serious one who either abolishes or greatly diminishes the power of congress and the courts, and rules with an iron fist.

[Niners fan]

I am not an ancient historian by any means but it seems like I remember reading that voters in Rome figured out that they could vote themselves benefits. Someone can correct me if that is not true.

I also remember reading that in spite of the fact that in our PC society diversity is touted as a strength that cultural diversity was a problem in Rome and ultimately contributed greatly to its downfall. (In fact, I have yet to find a history is society that was better off for diversity but maybe that could be an interesting topic for a different thread, I suppose. Unity is very underrated.)

[cpg35223]

One thing nobody really talks about--Roman emperors began to actively squash technical innovation. I believe Vespasian and Trajan outlawed innovations that were mysteriously alluded to by chroniclers of the day, for fear of the large-scale unemployment these innovations would cause. Nobody really knows what these inventions were, but we can make a tantalizing guess or two: Maybe the Romans had learned the secrets of mass production, whether in manufacturing or agriculture. Either way, the Roman emperors became short-term thinkers, worrying about the immediate needs of the workers rather than the long-term needs of society as a whole.

I just don't think this is a problem in American society.

[John Walmsley]

There are some social comparisons to be cited between early Rome and the early days of our own country. The Roman family unit was very strong, with divorce being rare. The sense of duty to the country was strong. When Rome went to war, class distinctions were erased, and the sons of the leading patrician families were not spared service. One notable example was the terrible battle of Cannae, where over 50,000 Romans died defending against Hannibal and his polyglot army. Rome lost 80 senators and two proconsuls at Cannae. Even a battle-hardened Hannibal was appalled at the carnage, and he honored the fallen Roman leaders with a burial normally accorded to persons of their rank.

Our system of checks and balances based on a constitution was taken largely from the Roman model. Consider this paragraph from a 100-year-old history book titled Beacon Lights of History: "There was no absolute power exercised at Rome until the subversion of the constitution, except by dictators chosen by the senate in times of imminent danger. ...The consuls could remain in office but a year, and could be called to account when their terms of office had expired." I rather like the idea of accountability, which is becoming a foreign concept today. A person who went to the the Roman senate and returned richer than he was before was looked upon with askance.

As Rome progressed and life became easier, more dependence was put on mercenaries and fewer demands were made on its citizens. A life of ease among Rome's elite took on a careless attitude. Here is another quote from
Beacon Lights of History "As the Romans were sensual, ostentatious, and luxurious people, they accordingly wasted their fortunes by an extravagance in their living, which has had no parallel."

Finally, Rome could no longer sustain the burden of holding their empire together against the restless barbaric marauders attacking their far-flung defenses. It might be said that Rome died of a 'thousand cuts,' many of which were self-inflicted.

[censusdata]

I was watching a documentary about Pompeii that states that findings there indicate that the Roman economy was already declining by 79 AD - findings such as rooms being rented out of large domuses (private homes) and records of food shortages.

GUBA - The Roman Empire. (Part 5 of 6).

[big daryle]

Im no expert on ancient Rome, but I think if anything, we are more overindulgent by the standards of the time than they were.

[David Kennedy]

Actually, it moved to Byzantium and left the moral depravity behind in Rome. When Constantine embraced christianity, he moved the capitol to the east and it existed until 1454 A.D.

[censusdata]

I list the wrong section of video. It is this one from minutes 15 to 21
GUBA - The Roman Empire. (Part 6 of 6).

[djf863000]

Originally Posted by censusdata

I list the wrong section of video. It is this one from minutes 15 to 21
GUBA - The Roman Empire. (Part 6 of 6).

yes i see it is happening to the US too today.