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JFK was everybody's President, regardless of minor differences of opinion politically. We were a unified nation rowing in the same direction....more so than ever surrounding that day.
That's what I remember of that day more than anything. Everyone loved him and people were crying in the streets. Later everyone was glued to the TV for hours.
The only time I got a wake up call was when I was in Texas. I actually heard people there saying they were glad he was shot. That was an eye opener since I grew up naively thinking we were all on the same side!!
This sort of thing is opined about all the time and--of course--no one can ever produce any real evidence of this "dark conspiracy". My belief is that these opinions about the Kennedy assassination are not history, but are simply opinions. We've seen it all here. Some people think they are making a great point by claiming LBJ was involved in the assassination. They have no evidence that it occurred, but they are absolutely convinced it did. These opinions become more important for them than actual facts or reality.
The truth is that JFK was not a very effectual President. No civil rights legislation passed Congress during his presidency. No tax cut legislation passed. The kinds of things that passed Congress during his presidency were non-controversial things like increased funding for the space program and creation of the Peace Corps. The reality was that most of what he wanted to accomplish as President was stalled in Congress and was unlikely to pass.
JFK is lionized primarily because he (1) died young; and (2) died in such a violent and unexpected manner. He was a very good speaker and his self-deprecating wit that he exhibited during press conferences made many people like him. Heck, when I see reruns of those moments I like him too, but its not enough to really make him a great president.
I think all the drama that surrounded the assassination kind of naturally lends itself to belief in conspiracy theories. We will never be rid of them.
i was very young, but i did live thru these times, people who point out that JFK was a hardliner anti-communist conveniently leave our the macarthyites effect on the country, meaning everybody HAD to move right..in a strange way 9/11 was the payback for ignoring Kennedy's vision...
i was hardly surprised at all by the 9/11 attacks, only maybe their scope...JFK wanted to real-in our country's overseas adventures ending in the neo-con spectrum domination....
Europe has had terror attacks for decades...
Granted i live in the Midwest but my experience tells me any suspicious activity in our neighborhoods get observed by an army of little old nosy neighbors
the invasion of a foreign country (Iraq) was complete and ineffective overreach
The truth is that JFK was not a very effectual President. No civil rights legislation passed Congress during his presidency. No tax cut legislation passed. The kinds of things that passed Congress during his presidency were non-controversial things like increased funding for the space program and creation of the Peace Corps. The reality was that most of what he wanted to accomplish as President was stalled in Congress and was unlikely to pass.
JFK is lionized primarily because he (1) died young; and (2) died in such a violent and unexpected manner. He was a very good speaker and his self-deprecating wit that he exhibited during press conferences made many people like him. Heck, when I see reruns of those moments I like him too, but its not enough to really make him a great president.
Not very effectual? His presidency was cut short!
I think solving the Cuban missile crisis and averting word wide nuclear war was pretty big as was negotiating the nuclear weapons treaty. What could be more effectual than saving the planet?
He laid all the ground work for the Civil Rights Act that was finally passed by LBJ.
Funding the Space Program was and still is controversial. Personally, it's huge to me and I've been behind it since the beginning- but there are plenty who are not.
I think solving the Cuban missile crisis and averting word wide nuclear war was pretty big as was negotiating the nuclear weapons treaty. What could be more effectual than saving the planet?
He laid all the ground work for the Civil Rights Act that was finally passed by LBJ.
Funding the Space Program was and still is controversial. Personally, it's huge to me and I've been behind it since the beginning- but there are plenty who are not.
Don’t forget that the United States became involved in Vietnam during Kennedy’s term. LBJ continued and amplified our involvement, perhaps more than JFK would have done, but the fact remains that our most senior military people had advised against it, including Eisenhower, MacArthur, and Goldwater, all of whom had deep experience in Asia and knew what they were talking about.
The space program kicked into high gear as a direct response to Soviet achievements such as Yuri Gargarin orbiting the Earth. Our program, like theirs, was closely connected to the Air Force and the astronauts were mostly military officers. It doesn’t really matter who was president in 1960; the U.S. had to keep up with the Soviets.
Don’t forget that the United States became involved in Vietnam during Kennedy’s term. LBJ continued and amplified our involvement, perhaps more than JFK would have done, but the fact remains that our most senior military people had advised against it, including Eisenhower, MacArthur, and Goldwater, all of whom had deep experience in Asia and knew what they were talking about.
The space program kicked into high gear as a direct response to Soviet achievements such as Yuri Gargarin orbiting the Earth. Our program, like theirs, was closely connected to the Air Force and the astronauts were mostly military officers. It doesn’t really matter who was president in 1960; the U.S. had to keep up with the Soviets.
The United States became involved in Viet Nam in the early 50s when Truman authorized military aid to the French. "Official" American involvement began November 1st, 1955 when Eisenhower deployed a Military Assistance Advisory Group to train the Vietnamese army. Around that same time, the Domino Theory, supported by Eisenhower, became widely circulated and formed the foundation of our escalating involvement in the war.
So, no, the United States did not become involved in Vietnam during Kennedy’s term. That train left the station 10 years prior.
No program like our commitment to land a man on the moon and return him safely to the earth kicks off by itself or as knee-jerk responses to events in history. Presidential leadership, with the backing of other key leaders in government, is essential and critical. Your contention that the President didn't matter is, frankly, absurd. JFK made that unforgettable and unmatched great era happen.
I think solving the Cuban missile crisis and averting word wide nuclear war was pretty big as was negotiating the nuclear weapons treaty. What could be more effectual than saving the planet?
He laid all the ground work for the Civil Rights Act that was finally passed by LBJ.
Funding the Space Program was and still is controversial. Personally, it's huge to me and I've been behind it since the beginning- but there are plenty who are not.
I know. I, too, shook my head.
I think most who are old enough to have been aware in that era would judge JFK to have been more "effectual" than the next 9 Presidents in succession.
Opinions do vary, often based much more on contemporary influences than America as it was then.
The United States became involved in Viet Nam in the early 50s when Truman authorized military aid to the French. "Official" American involvement began November 1st, 1955 when Eisenhower deployed a Military Assistance Advisory Group to train the Vietnamese army. Around that same time, the Domino Theory, supported by Eisenhower, became widely circulated and formed the foundation of our escalating involvement in the war.
So, no, the United States did not become involved in Vietnam during Kennedy’s term. That train left the station 10 years prior.
No program like our commitment to land a man on the moon and return him safely to the earth kicks off by itself or as knee-jerk responses to events in history. Presidential leadership, with the backing of other key leaders in government, is essential and critical. Your contention that the President didn't matter is, frankly, absurd. JFK made that unforgettable and unmatched great era happen.
JFK committed ground troops in Vietnam on a much larger scale than did his predecessors. When he took office, there were 900 U.S. advisors, and by 1964 (he was killed in November 1963) there were over 23,000.
It's true that the MAAG (Military Assistance Advisory Group) program was begun under Truman, who sent personnel to assist the French in Indochina (unfortunately), and increased somewhat under Eisenhower, but Ike was always reluctant to get too heavily involved. Up until his death in 1969, however, he did support American involvement in Southeast Asia, so it can't be said that he can't be blamed for the mess. He installed and propped up the Diem government, a corrupt regime that alienated the southerners and made the North's job easier.
JFK continued Ike's policies and allowed on-the-ground military involvement to grow dramatically, counter to Eisenhower's own advice and also counter to MacArthur, who stated "Anyone who wants to commit ground troops to Asia should have his head examined."
Regarding the Space program... I will concede JFK made a stirring speech. He was great at stirring speeches, in an era when speeches still meant something. Would Richard Nixon have launched the Apollo program, had he won the 1960 election? Probably unknowable. There was strong pressure for the U.S. to answer the USSR's challenge in space, and Nixon, known in the 1950s as a hawk, would hardly have backed down. Undoubtedly he would have supported the space program in some form, though whether he would have backed a manned landing on the Moon is questionable.
When Nixon finally won the White House, he presided over several lunar landings that were already in the pipeline. But he then shifted Nasa's focus to the Space Shuttle, and away from more ambitious ideas like building a base on the Moon, launching humans to Mars etc. Unfortunately, of course, the Space Shuttle we got was an overpriced, underfeatured craft that, at $100m price per launch, was too much of a compromise to truly meet the definition of a reusable space bus.
I think solving the Cuban missile crisis and averting word wide nuclear war was pretty big as was negotiating the nuclear weapons treaty. What could be more effectual than saving the planet?
He laid all the ground work for the Civil Rights Act that was finally passed by LBJ.
Funding the Space Program was and still is controversial. Personally, it's huge to me and I've been behind it since the beginning- but there are plenty who are not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownVic95
I know. I, too, shook my head.
I think most who are old enough to have been aware in that era would judge JFK to have been more "effectual" than the next 9 Presidents in succession.
Opinions do vary, often based much more on contemporary influences than America as it was then.
I will begin by saying JFK was President for two years and ten months. It is not totally fair to judge him on this limited tenure. However, all we have to judge him by ultimately is what he accomplished and what he did not. The record is a mixed one.
JFK deserves credit for his response to the Cuban Missile Crisis. However, a balanced assessment needs to take into account the fact that the missile crisis was partially brought about by the botched Bay of Pigs Invasion and appearing weak to Premier Khruschev of the USSR during the summit conference at Vienna. Its complicated though and I still--on the whole--give Kennedy credit for striking the right balance during the Cuban Missile Crisis.
Laid all the ground work for the civil rights legislation? You must be kidding me. It was completely stalled in the Congress, largely because of the power of the filibuster. The other factor was Kennedy hadn't figured out that legislation needed to be broken into parts. Eventually, there would be three separate bills that would pass Congress individually. One would deal with civil rights. The second with voting rights. The third that did not pass until 1968 would deal with housing discrimination. Kennedy clearly did not understand deal making and what would have to happen to get this legislation through Congress. Johnson had served a long time in both the Senate and House of Representatives and he understood.
The Space Program was not controversial in the early 1960's. It was a critical symbol to most Americans that showed we lead the world in terms of science and technology. It was also a natural adjunct to our ICBM program because of the technologies involved. Kennedy's gift to that program was speech-making and he did a good job of that. However, it was not a particularly hard feat to get Congress to appropriate money for the space program. If you looked at the margins that this legislation passed both houses of Congress by you would see that.
My observation is something like this: JFK brought style and class to this country. LBJ brought something that was more important: Social justice.
Just a few miles away from where I am right now. In college, heard it on my transistor radio.
Was reading last night that CIA still refuses to release all the files. But the writer said that you could kind of piece things together by what they HAVE released even though some words have been blacked out. CiA trying to assassinate Fidel Castro, Mafia guy was going to talk--was found dead inside an oil barrel floating on the water. Maybe this is part of the reason so many people no longer respect or trust our government.
Strangely, the weather here is identical to the weather that day. Today it turned chilly and gray, exactly like it was on that awful day.
Over 50 years later and still not releasing all the files. There is was something there 'they' or the 'institution' doesn't want to own up to. What is it? methods or people are the reason things like these files are classified. 60 years later people in those files are still in danger if alive?
I don't know if it was a 7 Days In May conspiracy but a lot of government types never want to admit that there are people & groups with different philosiphies, opinions on the US government. Back then they could've obiterated any conspiracy but they would never would want to admit that there are 'conspiracies' against US politicians and government and are a real possiblity. Hence 'the patsy' Oswald. A lone wolf is much easier to sell. The establishment doesn't want to people to question things so the status quo must appear to extremely healthy so they feel secure.
Last edited by anononcty; 12-20-2021 at 02:25 PM..
Over 50 years later and still not releasing all the files. There is was something there 'they' or the 'institution' doesn't want to own up to. What is it? methods or people are the reason things like these files are classified. 60 years later people in those files are still in danger if alive?
I don't know if it was a 7 Days In May conspiracy but a lot of government types never want to admit that there are people & groups with different philosiphies, opinions on the US government. Back then they could've obiterated any conspiracy but they would never would want to admit that there are 'conspiracies' against US politicians and government and are a real possiblity. Hence 'the patsy' Oswald. A lone wolf is much easier to sell. The establishment doesn't want to people to question things so the status quo must appear to extremely healthy so they feel secure.
Ok.....so you think there was a conspiracy. Answer this question for me:
If Oswald didn't shoot Kennedy than why did he murder Dallas Police Officer J.D. Tippetts?
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