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Old 05-23-2008, 09:51 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,650,536 times
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Originally Posted by MICoastieMom
Quote:
Sounds like self-loathing to me.
Unfortunately it is not uncommon for Israelis to call Jews (around the world) who criticize the Israeli government as Jewish anti-Semites. Even Jewish writers* who followed the tradition of the Yiddish writers who were commonly radicals and secularists have been accused of being Jewish anti-Semites.

Quote:
* Thus, the popular Jewish writers in the tradition of [Phillip] Roth were accused of being Jewish "anti-semites", producers of filth and self - hatred and conveyors of the same calumnies which the Jews of the old world endured for so long.
(...)
Roth, of course, did to the Jewish world what non-Jewish writers had already done to the Christian world for a century. He secularized the sacred. He ridiculed the divine. He insulted the tradition and he vulgarized his "in-group." Thus, Roth, and so many other Jewish - American writers, contributed mightily, not only to the secularization of Judaism and America in general, but also to the de-mystification of the Jewish tradition.

Source: Jewish-American Literature
Quote:
I think a more plausible explanation is rooted in his failed attempts to become an artist and his rejection at art school.
I guess small people need a big ego as compensation?
I mean Napoleon and Alexander the Great also weren’t tall but very successful in waging war.
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Old 05-23-2008, 06:17 PM
 
594 posts, read 1,588,041 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moth View Post
No.

There is some question as to who was Hitler's paternal grandfather and rumors of a Jewish line followed. While these are intriguing, there is simply no concrete proof that Hitler had any Jewish lineage.
I believe you are close to the truth on this. John Toland is best known as having written the definitive biography of Adolph Hitler. In Toland's biography [pages 245-247] he relates the story of Alois Hitler Jr., Adolph's older half-brother, although Adolph claimed later that Alois Jr. was adopted and no blood relative. I'm compressing this story for brevity, but Alois Jr. moved to Ireland, where he met and married an Irish lady, who bore him a son, William Patrick Hitler. They later moved to Liverpool, England. The marriage went bad and Alois Jr. returned to Germany.

Meanwhile, Adolph was having some election successes that were being publicized in Europe. William Patrick Hitler and his mother became noticed and took the opportunity to make some money by being interviewed by the Hearst papers. Later, the mother and son traveled to Germany, where they were met by a reluctant and agitated Adolph. He was in a rage that the family history would be scrutinized. He even gave Alois Jr. $2000 to spirit them out of the country. Later, William Patrick Hitler was said to have "hinted" that certain things about the family history would be found interesting, "namely that Adolph was part Jewish."

Adolph was haunted by the prospects of having his ancestry exposed. He ordered his lawyer, Hans Frank, to thoroughly investigate the family genealogy and give him a report. Framk's report was very disturbing to Hitler, because it said that his father was the illegitmate son of a cook named Shicklegruber who worked for a Jewish family named Frankenberger. Frank's report stated that the Frankenbergers paid a paternity allowance on behalf of their 19-year-old son. Adolph heatedly refused to believe the Frank report, claiming that his "grandfather had successfully blackmailed the Frankenbergers on the false charge of paternity." Although thoroughly shaken by the Frank report, Adolph was adamant about his ancestry. Moreover, Toland says that: "The chance that Adolph Hitler was part Jewish was minimal." Toland has the following footnote* that is of interest:

*"The research of Nikolaus Preradovic, University of Graz, casts some doubt on Frank's evidence. He found no record of either a Frankenberger or a
Frankenreither in the books of the Jewish congregation in Graz, Austria. These books, it is true, begin in 1856, nineteen years after Hitler's father was born, but that was because Jews had been driven out of the Steiermark in 1496 and were only allowed to return in 1856. Before that time, according to Preradovic, there was 'not one single Jew' in Graz."

A final ironic twist about Hitler's obsession with ethnicity and his fanatical dread of being found to have Jewish blood is that General Erich von Manstein, who historian Antony Beevor described as "A Prussian guards officer admired as the most brilliant strategist of the whole of the Second World War," privately admitted that he was partly Jewish. It makes one wonder how someone like Hitler, driven by ethnic hatreds, would have reacted had he known that one of his most trusted field marshals was partly Jewish.
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Old 01-15-2019, 09:01 PM
 
2 posts, read 245 times
Reputation: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Six Foot Three View Post
Thanks for the explanation Dd714.... I guess then i'm still curious why he chose ''Reich'' which means empire or kingdom if i'm correct??

6/3
Speaking of Reich why was it called " The Third Reich "? As far as I know there was never a 1st or 2nd Reich. If I am wrong about that fact please let me know.
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Old 01-16-2019, 05:35 AM
 
Location: 912 feet above sea level
1,961 posts, read 712,126 times
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Originally Posted by dlynnt View Post
Speaking of Reich why was it called " The Third Reich "? As far as I know there was never a 1st or 2nd Reich. If I am wrong about that fact please let me know.
The Holy Roman Empire and the German Empire were the First Reich and Second Reich, but they were not called that by contemporaries... in much the same way that the first few Super Bowls were not called that but had the name retroactively applied to them.
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Old 01-16-2019, 11:44 AM
 
Location: San Diego CA
4,245 posts, read 3,107,973 times
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Well. In the final analysis Hitler was a revolutionary. Those who instigate a revolution turn the old order upside down including old titles of governance and power. The title of leader or fuhrer was entirely appropriate and swept away any illusion whatsoever that the old power structure remained in place.
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Old 01-16-2019, 03:25 PM
 
30,966 posts, read 15,887,726 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moth View Post
"Reich" can also mean nation or land. One of Hitler's goals was to united all German-speaking peoples under one roof so the term Reich fit in well with this goal.
It's a tricky word to translate directly. It serves well as a suffix - Königreich for kingdom and Kaiserreich for empire - but on its own, it's dependent on context.
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Old 01-16-2019, 03:31 PM
 
30,966 posts, read 15,887,726 times
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Originally Posted by msgsing View Post
Well. In the final analysis Hitler was a revolutionary. Those who instigate a revolution turn the old order upside down including old titles of governance and power. The title of leader or fuhrer was entirely appropriate and swept away any illusion whatsoever that the old power structure remained in place.
Except, interestingly enough, behind the scenes a lot of traditional power structures remained intact. The industrialists kept owning & running their factories, the nobility kept their lands and titles (von Ribbentrop was known to be furious if someone forgot the "von" when addressing him). To say nothing of the armed forces - at the end of Hitler's rearmament program, the German military was organized pretty much to the T according to a plan worked out by the general staff in the mid-1920s. There's a reason Hitler later started insisting on raising units that were beholden to him, personally.
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Old 01-16-2019, 03:33 PM
 
30,966 posts, read 15,887,726 times
Reputation: 16378
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulsker 1856 View Post
The Holy Roman Empire and the German Empire were the First Reich and Second Reich, but they were not called that by contemporaries... in much the same way that the first few Super Bowls were not called that but had the name retroactively applied to them.
Or the First World War...
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Old 01-17-2019, 06:03 AM
 
Location: Somewhere in northern Alabama
17,246 posts, read 52,535,432 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
It's a tricky word to translate directly. It serves well as a suffix - Königreich for kingdom and Kaiserreich for empire - but on its own, it's dependent on context.
Ummm... Reich translates literally as "reach," which has an obscure maritime definition that is likely based directly on the Germanic: a continuous extent of land or water, especially a stretch of river between two bends, or the part of a canal between locks. Thus, the "reach" of power and influence by a ruler or group over an area.
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Old 01-17-2019, 08:45 AM
 
806 posts, read 486,101 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MICoastieMom View Post
So? So the fact that his (Jewish) mother died after being treated by a Jewish doctor doesn't adequately explain in my mind his hatred of Jews. Sounds like self-loathing to me. I think a more plausible explanation is rooted in his failed attempts to become an artist and his rejection at art school. He resented those who thrived in the bohemian world, those who supported the fine arts (wealthy patrons), and any educated person who had an independent thought. Remember, not only Jews went to concentration camps. He also targeted gypsies, artists and writers and intellectuals, Jesuit priests, anyone who could pose a challenge he viewed as a threat. And anyone he considered defective; many, many people with physical or mental handicaps. Which may have given rise to the insidous research of Dr. Josef Mengele.
Hitler actually liked the Jewish doctor who couldn't save his mother. In fact, when the persecution of the Jews began to ramp up he placed the Jewish doctor under Gestapo protection and allowed him and his family to emigrate to the US.
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