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Old 07-06-2008, 07:40 PM
 
13,000 posts, read 23,855,959 times
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Here you go Tesaje as Youtube has a 5 part series from The History Channel show ''Barbarians The Goths'' as they invade the Roman Empire evading the Huns as you may like this and if you've seen this before then never mind but maybe others reading this may enjoy.


YouTube - Barbarians The Goths PART 1 OF 5

YouTube - Barbarians The Goths PART 2 OF 5

YouTube - Barbarians The Goths PART 3 OF 5

YouTube - Barbarians The Goths PART 4 OF 5

YouTube - Barbarians The Goths PART 5 OF 5
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Old 07-07-2008, 10:30 AM
 
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I've watched most of that series...very good. I just finished a book 'The Myth of Nations" by Patrick Geary..One part talked about the changes in the Roman Empire from the "Barbarians".. actually, except for the likes of Attilla, most did not kill or destroy the people they conqured...they needed serfs, administrators, and tax payers!! In fact, the Franks and some Goths let the people decide which laws they chose to be governed by...Roman or Frankish..
In the end, with all the mixing of people, the combining of "Origin" myths etc. it just got to the point where the only people who called themselves Romans at all, were the ones that lived in the City of Rome.
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Old 07-07-2008, 01:08 PM
 
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I thought it was interesting in that the Romans treated the Goths worse than any other Barbarian people and the Goths hated them for it and even rose up and sacked Rome in 410 A.D.and yet after the Western Empire fell in 476 A.D.the Visigoths (Western Goths) were the one's who preserved Roman architecture, customs, laws and religion etc...more than any other Barbarian peoples that had entered Europe.

I wonder what ever happened to the Visigoths as they retreated north to the Frankish territory permanently when the Moors invaded Spain in the 700's. Did they blend in with the Franks ??
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Old 07-07-2008, 03:32 PM
 
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King Roderic,(who I wrongly guessed in "Who Am I") was the last King of the Visigoths. After the Muslims conqured Spain, many fled North and became important people in the Frankish Kingdom.Others just assimilated into other cultures.
Interestingly, many of the "barbarians" who were not pagans, were Arian Christians, not Orthodox Christians.
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Old 07-08-2008, 04:38 AM
 
Location: Tolland County- Northeastern CT
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One of the reasons for Romes fall was the rather archaic succession of its Emperors.

During the Julio-Claudian dynasty from Augustus to Nero- all where related. Nero, however was insane and committed suicide- Caligula was also insane and was murdered.

The only period where the succession problem was really solved was the period of the '5 good emperors' starting with Nerva in 97- through Trajan, Hadrian, Antonius Pius & Marcus Aurelius to 180- The Peak of the 'Pax Romana'. Starting with Commodus 180-192 it started a progression of bad leaders and decline throughout the troubled second and third century, where Rome had no real good emperors able to stabilize the empire.

Not until DIOCLETIAN in 284-305 was the empire made strong again- and also under Constantine the Great 307-337 was Rome able to stabilize its economy and stem the tide of Barbarian invasions- which entered the country for over a century because of weak and corrupt Emperors who where unable to secure the borders, stabilize the economy and better manage the legions.

Rome (the Western Empire) lasted till 476- the city was sacked in 410 by the Visigoth Alaric- the first time the eternal city was breached by invaders since the Celts nearly 800 years before.

Last edited by skytrekker; 07-08-2008 at 05:15 AM..
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Old 07-09-2008, 07:06 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
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IMHO a major factor in the decline of the empire was the loss of agricultural capacity in Italy due to overproduction and soil erosion. This was complicated by the decline of shipbuilding capacity by deforestation all over the Mediterranean world.
Being run by a bunch of madmen didn’t help along with using captive people to provide the soldiers for the declining legions to protect the overextended territories.
Parallels with our situation in the world since WW2 are hard to avoid. What goes around comes around.
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Old 07-09-2008, 07:57 AM
 
Location: St. Augustine
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I recall one historian saying the Empire fell because the Romans had turned into the Italians.
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Old 07-09-2008, 08:00 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
IMHO a major factor in the decline of the empire was the loss of agricultural capacity in Italy due to overproduction and soil erosion. This was complicated by the decline of shipbuilding capacity by deforestation all over the Mediterranean world.
Being run by a bunch of madmen didnít help along with using captive people to provide the soldiers for the declining legions to protect the overextended territories.
Parallels with our situation in the world since WW2 are hard to avoid. What goes around comes around.
I agree about the agriculture.. Rome was importing most of its grain, and that was not a good thing. However, you mention that Rome used "Captive people to provide soldiers" They recruited the Germanic tribesmen to be soldiers. They were not captives. A Frank or a Goth could have a good life and chances for advancement in the Roman Legions. They saw the civilization of the Romans and wanted to be part of it! And they were very proud to serve, as illustrated by a 3rd century grave marker in Pannonia which was erected for a Frankish warrior in the service of Rome:
Translation:
I am Frankish by nationality, but a Roman soldier under arms."
And a quote from the book "The Roman Empire and Its Germanic Peoples" by Herwig Wolfram:
The German Peoples neither destroyed the Roman world nor restored it; instead, they made a home for themselves within it as did many others"
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Old 07-16-2008, 10:25 PM
 
485 posts, read 1,216,585 times
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Wow-so much misinformation!

The Roman Empire lasted until 1453-the Eastern half.

The Romans had automation-recently a gravity powered grist mill of great size was finally recognized for what it was-put grain in the top, get flour out the bottom.

I doubt it was the only one.

The Romans had a lot of slaves, but free people did a lot of the work-slaves were unreliable.

Roman ships were rowed by free men-and well paid men.

The Romans had invented a form of the corporation, the latafundia-it was a big part of their industrial base.

They were on the verge of creating real science-and using it, too.

They built elaborate machines-that worked.

Roman military might was founded on the throwing spear-the pilum-and they invented firepower.

The Celts inhabited Spain, much of Gaul and the British Isles-there were a lot of them.

Rome had little sea-power-they contracted with various pirate kingdoms for ships-but they did have a navy.

The Western Empire didn't so much fall as fall apart, Civil War weakened the administration, and the logistics of running things finally overwhelmed them.

Rome was corrupt, and that also hastened the end of the West.

The Roman Seat of Government wasn't Rome for quite some time, it was Ravenna.

Crazy emperors destroyed confidence in the administration.

Rome got her grain from Egypt and Libia-those latafundias I mentioned turned Libya into a dust bowl, and cut down the food supply.

Rome had always depended on conquest for infusions of capital-but the Empire grew, and finally, logistics made further expansion impossible.

Plagues damaged Roman order-some ethnic groups began to become independant because Rome was too far away.

When the barbarians migrated West, under pressure from the Huns, order began to fail, then the Huns arrived, too.

The Empire just ground to a halt, slowly.

The Eastern part carried on, there was a Senate and an Emperor in Byzantium right up to the Turkish conquest in 1453-but attacks by the Crusaders and Venice damaged things so badly that it caved in.

The popular conception of the ancient world is deeply flawed-only recently have we begun to see how far Roman civilization had come-and what glories they almost grasped.

Almost.

The Arabs were heirs to the science of Rome-the center was Alexandria-but the Crusades so forced them into military matters, and so hardened their attitudes that it all was forgotten.

But when Byzantium went under, refugees fled to Italy, where they sparked the Renaissance by teaching what they knew.
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Old 07-16-2008, 10:28 PM
 
Location: southern california
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the fall of rome has been well documented and the reasons well discussed.
weapons was not the primary factor. but i understand i think your point, what if scenarios.
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