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Old 08-08-2008, 04:20 PM
 
Location: home...finally, home .
8,807 posts, read 21,236,910 times
Reputation: 20066

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Whenever I watch films like this, I am still amazed that any of it actually happened.
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Old 08-08-2008, 04:24 PM
 
Location: home...finally, home .
8,807 posts, read 21,236,910 times
Reputation: 20066
Does anyone know by chance if Lani Riefenstahl is still living.

She died about five years ago , I think. She lived a nice long life which is certainly against the way things should have gone.
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Old 08-09-2008, 05:04 AM
 
Location: Turn right at the stop sign
4,538 posts, read 3,999,546 times
Reputation: 4836
Quote:
Originally Posted by nancy thereader View Post
Does anyone know by chance if Lani Riefenstahl is still living.

She died about five years ago , I think. She lived a nice long life which is certainly against the way things should have gone.
I'm curious, why should Leni Reifenstahl not have had a nice long life? Not trying to put words in your mouth but are you implying that her films and what they depict raise her to the level of a war criminal like those put on trial at Nuremberg?

Perhaps you were not aware that she spent 4 years in a detention camp at the conclusion of the war because the film content was viewed as contributing to the pro Nazi cause. Yet two separate court trials cleared her of being an active Nazi and any collaboration that could be considered a war crime.

True, many consider "Triumph of the Will" to be pure propaganda, which one can certainly make the case that it was. However, Reifenstahl denied it, stating "It reflects the truth as it was then, in 1934. It is a documentary, not propaganda". Can one honestly say that an equally strong case can't be made to support her contention?

When I look at the life and work of Leni Reifenstahl I don't see a mere propagandist for the Nazi movement as so many do. Instead I see a very complex, often contradictory woman with amazing cinematographic talent, so obsessed with creating visual masterpieces that the subject matter and it's ultimate use was immaterial to her. And given that even today both "Triumph of the Will" and "Olympia" are studied in film school as examples of the documentary in it's highest form, her accomplishments and place in the world of film simply can't be ignored.

The fact of the matter is, Leni Reifenstahl, more by accident then design, has left us a lasting record of a political and ideological movement that nearly swept the entire world into the abyss. "Triumph of the Will" should not be viewed simply as a glorification of Nazism. Rather it should be seen as a warning of what can happen to a nation when it's people blindly embrace political leaders as modern day messiahs who will lead them forward into greatness.

So whether you consider her a war criminal, Nazi sympathizer, opportunist, or misunderstood artist, I don't believe there is any denying that what she left behind stands as a lesson to us all.
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Old 08-09-2008, 12:37 PM
 
Location: Downtown, Chicago
61 posts, read 197,536 times
Reputation: 27
For obvious reasons, I'm completely against what the Nazi part stood for. That said, Hitler was one of the greatest leaders ever to exist. His speeches are still studied today.
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Old 08-14-2008, 07:28 PM
 
Location: Flyover Country
26,212 posts, read 19,471,341 times
Reputation: 21678
Quote:
Originally Posted by Titan 3 View Post
For obvious reasons, I'm completely against what the Nazi part stood for. That said, Hitler was one of the greatest leaders ever to exist. His speeches are still studied today.
Someones ability to passionately lie to the masses and make them obedient makes them a "great leader"?



A "great leader" is one who LEADS his people away from their mortal destruction and towards their peaceful prosperity, Hitler was personally responsible for the deaths of tens of millions, the injuries of 10 times that, and the mass rapes and conquest of an entire continent.

There is nothing "great" about a tyrant who can use violence, fear, intimidation and murder to achieve his political aims before the entire world erupts in war and the country he leads is forever changed, through violence, destruction, and military occupation, as Germany was.
Mod Cut...no name calling,please

Last edited by Thyra; 08-15-2008 at 06:47 AM.. Reason: No name calling
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Old 08-15-2008, 12:39 AM
 
Location: Downtown, Chicago
61 posts, read 197,536 times
Reputation: 27
[quote=odanny;4863217]Someones ability to passionately lie to the masses and make them obedient makes them a "great leader"?



A "great leader" is one who LEADS his people away from their mortal destruction and towards their peaceful prosperity, Hitler was personally responsible for the deaths of tens of millions, the injuries of 10 times that, and the mass rapes and conquest of an entire continent.

There is nothing "great" about a tyrant who can use violence, fear, intimidation and murder to achieve his political aims before the entire world erupts in war and the country he leads is forever changed, through violence, destruction, and military occupation, as Germany was.



You defined a great "president" I said leader. A leader has the ability to inspire and drive a force of people toward a desired goal...... A leader unifies a group of individuals by highlighting their collective fears or hopes. This makes Hitler a great leader. A bad human being IMHO, but a great leader none the less.

Last edited by Thyra; 08-15-2008 at 08:10 AM.. Reason: Updating
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Old 08-20-2008, 04:32 PM
 
Location: Downtown, Chicago
61 posts, read 197,536 times
Reputation: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by odanny View Post
Someones ability to passionately lie to the masses and make them obedient makes them a "great leader"?



A "great leader" is one who LEADS his people away from their mortal destruction and towards their peaceful prosperity, Hitler was personally responsible for the deaths of tens of millions, the injuries of 10 times that, and the mass rapes and conquest of an entire continent.

There is nothing "great" about a tyrant who can use violence, fear, intimidation and murder to achieve his political aims before the entire world erupts in war and the country he leads is forever changed, through violence, destruction, and military occupation, as Germany was.
Mod Cut...no name calling,please
I just realized you were edited for "name calling"??!!! Seriously?? Tough guys on the internet make me laugh. You would cross the street if you had to pass me on a sidewalk, tough guy!
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Old 08-21-2008, 05:33 PM
 
Location: Flyover Country
26,212 posts, read 19,471,341 times
Reputation: 21678
Quote:
Originally Posted by Titan 3 View Post
I just realized you were edited for "name calling"??!!! Seriously?? Tough guys on the internet make me laugh. You would cross the street if you had to pass me on a sidewalk, tough guy!
I didnt call you a name. I didnt call anyone a name. I have no idea why my message was cut short but I am sure it was not for name calling.
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Old 08-21-2008, 11:58 PM
 
Location: Downtown, Chicago
61 posts, read 197,536 times
Reputation: 27
Then I apologize. The Mod edit told a very different story. Nothing wrong with polite disagreements.
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Old 08-22-2008, 06:07 PM
 
Location: Flyover Country
26,212 posts, read 19,471,341 times
Reputation: 21678
Quote:
Originally Posted by Titan 3 View Post
Then I apologize. The Mod edit told a very different story. Nothing wrong with polite disagreements.
No problem, I'm not here to antagonize people with anything but the truth.
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