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Old 09-01-2008, 11:10 PM
Location: City of North Las Vegas, NV
11,061 posts, read 7,407,907 times
Reputation: 2849


"During the Archaic period, the population of Greece grew beyond the capacity of its limited arable land (according to one estimate, the population of Ancient Greece increased by a factor larger than ten during the period from 800 BC to 400 BC, increasing from a population of 800,000 to a total estimated population of 10 to 13 million"

from: Ancient Greece - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Old 09-02-2008, 07:01 AM
674 posts, read 1,345,296 times
Reputation: 276
Originally Posted by WildWestDude View Post
Caucasians are originally from the Caucasus region, between the Black and Caspian Seas. So Greeks are closer to that than anything else.
I tried to post a response before, when this site asked for a new passcode to be created for my account. And the content of the post was lost.

But to summarize the content of my response: Greeks are not caucasians. And 'caucatian' has nothing to do with skincolor. I guess its more of an (odd) american thing to classify words as latin, caucatian and so forth as a refernce to skin color (!). In Europe and other cultures with ancient history the word is simply a description of people from certain regions. The ancient Greeks described caucatians in third person, as observing an outsider, a foreigner, and not as Greek people.

The old name for Greeks was Rhomaioi, a name derived from the word Rome. Many historians argue different views, stating for example, that modern Greeks have no trace of ancien greek roots but are more of roman origin. Your DNA link is of little evidence because its written by a Greek, and Greeks are emotional about statements that they are "mixed" with cultures they don't want to be mixed with! They particularly don't want to be told they are mixed with Turks since there's a lot of bad feelings amongst the Greeks against Turks.

Peoples of the Caucasus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (no mention of Greeks)

European ethnic groups - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Greek Jews
"The Romaniotes are a Jewish population who have lived in the territory of today's Greece and neighboring areas with large Greek populations for more than 2,000 years. Their language is Greek and they derive their name from the old name for the Greek people, Rhomaioi."

Romaniotes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (no mention of caucatians)

The Byzantine Empire and Eastern Roman Empire are recent names used to describe the Roman Empire during the Middle Ages, centered on its capital of Constantinople, referred to by its inhabitants simply as the Roman Empire or Romania, its emperors continuing the unbroken succession of Roman emperors, preserving Greco-Roman legal and cultural traditions... it was known to many of its western European contemporaries as Empire of the Greeks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_Empire (no mention of caucatians)

Ancient Greece - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ancient Greeks:
Dorian Greeks (no mention of caucatians here)
Dorians - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Macedonian Greeks (no mention of caucatians)
Ancient Macedonians - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Proto-Greek language - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Old 09-02-2008, 10:37 AM
Location: City of North Las Vegas, NV
11,061 posts, read 7,407,907 times
Reputation: 2849
If the Greeks are not caucasian then I guess they are descendants of the aborigenes of Australia.

Like I mentioned before there is propaganda against Greece, its culture and history.
That is a topic that is very complicated and belongs in the politcs forum.

Anyway, the sources that you mention are influenced by such propaganda, pro ethnic, idiotic, Balkan and anti-greek ideologies. The fact that they might not mention the caucasian race does not mean that the greeks are not that. Your source on the peoples of the Caucasus deals mostly with people of the last couple of centuries and means nothing
The word for Greece is Hellas and the Greeks are Hellenes. The word Rhomaiei was originally used to describe the Romans and later used by the Ottomans to describe Greeks. And for sure Greeks are not of Jewish blood. The jews of Greece came from Spain after they were kicked out. You might as well say that greeks are an american Indian tribe................
It is the cultures and peoples of a big wide area that have been hellenized.
That would include Rome much of the Med. and points east of Baghdad.
Moreover, its the Romans that are more Hellenes not the other way around.
The ancient Greek empire and especially in Magna Grecia (southern Italy and Sicily)and Asia Minor had huge populations for that time and the total empire's hellenes were in the millions. Greek colonies stretched from parts of Spain, France, Italy, Adriatic, Egypt, Pontic/Black Sea, Caucasus, Cyprus etc.
If you include Alexander's Empire, whose soldiers were encouraged to marry locals, then the greek seed can be found as far east as Afganistan.

" 7th Century

In the seventh century Emperor Heraclius adopted Greek as the official language. Greeks continued to live around the Levant, Mediterranean and Black Sea maintaining a Greek identity amongst local populations as traders, officials and settlers. Under the Ottoman Empire these populations generally remained.

15th Century - Fall Of Byzantium, Exodus to Italy

Many Greeks fled Constantinople after its fall in 1453 and found refuge in Italy, bringing with them many ancient Greek writings that had been lost in the West. These helped contribute to the European Renaissance. Most Greeks settled in Venice and are indeed now lost to history."

From: Greek diaspora - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Top 50 countries with the largest Greek populations

Even though the DNA study was done by a Greek it is based on undisputed science and facts. Ancient Greek DNA is found not only in modern Greeks but in most of the areas that they conquered. Don't dispute facts.

Last edited by WildWestDude; 09-02-2008 at 11:19 AM..
Old 09-02-2008, 11:29 AM
Location: City of North Las Vegas, NV
11,061 posts, read 7,407,907 times
Reputation: 2849
A bit on greek culture that has not only influenced the west but the entire world.

Why Greeks like being Greek:

Because we never visit others empty handed.
Because there is no way to explain "kapsoura" (burning desire for someone) to those who are not Greek.
Because in Greece family is still something valuable.
Because we always make it, albeit in the last moment!
Because we were slaves for 400 years yet never bring that up as an excuse
for our current state.
Because "filotimo" (friend of honour, helping someone because it brings shame not to) does not exist in any other language.
Because whenever foreigners cannot find a word, they use one of ours.
Because we spend our bad and low times with our friends and family, not with shrinks.
Because Socrates, Plato and Aristotle were Greek.
Because we invented theatre.
Because we gave birth to Democracy.
Because we discovered logic.
Because we jumpstarted science.
Because we are proud of our culture, not of our wars.
Because when we were building the Parthenon, others were still sleeping in caves.
Because we have a distinction between Eros (being in love) and Agape
(brotherly love), while we feel both of them passionately.
Because we gave the oath "freedom or death".
Because when others were clothed in wolf skin we were weaving see-through linen.
Because "Greeks do not fight as heroes, heroes fight like Greeks" (Winston Churchill,1941).
Because we gave our ancient alphabet to the Romans & our medieval alphabet to the Slavs.
Because we are not ashamed to cry.
Because we dance when we are joyful or sad, or,...........................................
Because we work to live...we do not live to work.
Because 97% of the stars' names are Greek.
Because when you shout "brother or cousin " in the streets everyone turns around.
Because the inside of all our churches are not dark but filled with "Light."
Because our parents do not forget that we exist when we reach 18.
Because when we want to sunbathe, we go to the beach.
Because we confront every difficulty with humor.
Because the Olympic games were born in Greece.
Because, with our (Olympic) Light, we unite the world and pass the message of peace.
Because our sky is blue, not grey.
Because 40% of the Oxford dictionary is made up of Greek words.
Because we know what "Kefi" (propensity for fun) means
Old 09-02-2008, 02:01 PM
Location: City of North Las Vegas, NV
11,061 posts, read 7,407,907 times
Reputation: 2849
look here for Greco-Roman Heritage

Byzantine Greeks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Old 09-05-2008, 09:23 PM
9 posts, read 102,178 times
Reputation: 30
Ok I think some of you are confusing the term Caucasian meaning the region with the term Caucasian meaning RACE.

No the Greeks are not Caucasians meaning Peoples of the Caucasus but then again nor are most other Europeans and other people who are considered Caucasians:
Peoples of the Caucasus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

BUT the Greeks are Caucasians meaning the Caucasian race :"Nordic, Alpine, and Mediterranean Among the main racial group of Caucasians there are three subgroups; Nordic, Alpine, and Mediterranean"

Now to answer the original started of this thread: yes Greeks are considered to be white people. Have you ever seen Greek phenotypes? Since ancient times and into modern times they have phenotypes similar to other European white people. Genetically they cluster closer to people of the Balkans.

Also I've read some other misinformations regarding Greeks. Greeks were never Latins. I don't know where some of you got that idea from but that is not true.
Old 09-05-2008, 09:27 PM
9 posts, read 102,178 times
Reputation: 30
Originally Posted by happycamper5 View Post
He asked if they are white, not the origin! lol
Mediterranian isn't an origin, its a Sea that covers over three continents, over 24 countries, numerious bodies of water, and over hundreds of cultures and ethnicities.
Old 09-05-2008, 09:29 PM
9 posts, read 102,178 times
Reputation: 30
Originally Posted by WildWestDude View Post
I don't know how you got that, not saying its not true, but blacks have never been known to have settled in Greece. Perhaps one Greek female down his bloodline was too adventurous
So very true. Blacks have always been very rare to none existing in the Greek region. I think some people are confusing having dark hair, eyes, tanned skin with being 'black'.
Old 09-05-2008, 09:33 PM
9 posts, read 102,178 times
Reputation: 30
Originally Posted by Mooseketeer View Post
I am European and have lived all over Europe and Greeks have always to my knowledge been considered just as white as a French, Italian or British person.
Not that the question really arises very often. You don't hear people pondering racial "affiliations" and roots very often about most European groups, apart from maybe the Basque, Lapps, Finns.

I have never heard anything to the contrary in my 40 year life. As an Archaeologist/Anthropologist I would also be extremely surprised if any recognised academics disagreed with this.

Migration patterns and anthropological physiological and cultural assessments firmly put Greek people in the White/Caucasian race.
Agree with Moosketeer, I've never heard any European not consider Greeks part of the white/Caucasian race.
Old 09-05-2008, 09:43 PM
9 posts, read 102,178 times
Reputation: 30
Originally Posted by antibes View Post

Well, [the opinion is] both yes and no. You're referring to ancient greek genetics while recent claims are that modern Greeks have nothing left of ancient greek genetics but have been watered out with latin (roman) and turk genetics. Also, someone mentioned the Greeks are 'caucatian'. but if you look up references for caucatians, the greeks are not even mentioned.
Incorrect. Greeks are not Latins nor were they ever Latins and you are confusing the Caucasian race of which the Greeks are part of, with the Peoples of the Caucasus...two different things.

As for the continuations of Greek genetic it has already been proven there is a continuation of ancient Greeks to modern Greeks genetic by credible scientists on this field:

Genetic origins
Modern studies have constructed Greek genetic trees revealing a strong degree of homogeneity between Greeks from different geographical locations. Median networks revealed that most of the Greek haplotypes are clustered to the known haplogroups and that a number of haplotypes are shared among Greeks and other European and Near Eastern populations. Within the loci studied, the genetic composition of the Greeks indicates a significantly low level of heterogeneity compared with other European populations[73"][74][75] The levels of the R1a1 haplotype, associated by some with Slavic migrations, [76][/url] have been found to be 12%.[77] This confirms other studies that disprove the thesis that the Greeks have mingled substantially with Slavic people.[78][79] A 7%–22% contribution of Y chromosomes by Greeks to Southern Italy was estimated by admixture analysis in the same study.[78]

Modern scholars and scientists have supported the notion that there is a racial connection to the ancient Greeks. Luigi Luca Cavalli-Sforza, Paolo Menozzi, and Alberto Piazza, have found evidence of a genetic connection between the ancient and modern Greeks. [80"][81] Recent genetic analyses of Greek populations have provided evidence of statistically significant continuity between ancient and modern Greeks (low admixture attributed to genetic isolation due to physical barriers). [81"][82][83][84][85]
Greeks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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