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Old 09-14-2008, 04:54 PM
 
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I was studying about the fall of the Byzantine Empire when i discovered that there was an effort to create an 3rd Roman Empire.The first Empire originated out of Rome in 27 BC with Augustus as 1st Emperor and comprised most of Europe and around the Mediterranian Sea and North Africa.The second or Byzantine Empire originated out of Constantinople in 330 AD with Constantine the Great as 1st Emperor and comprised most of the Balkans and Eastern Mediterranian Sea areas.

The 3rd was to be Russia with Moscow as the New Rome.

When the Byzantine Empire fell in 1453 the last Emperor Constantine XI niece Sophia Paleologue married the Russian King Ivan III who could probably under her influence could claim to be heir and next Byzantine Emperor. In 1480 he even started to address himself as Imperator or Csar (Ceasar) in Russian although the Russian Empire wasn't proclaimed until 1721 under Peter the Great. Also the Russians were of the Orthodox religion as were the Byzantines. But this never became reality.

I noticed there are some other examples thru out Euro History where a 3rd Roman Empire was proclaimed but they were very weak or short lasted like Mussolini's Grande Terza Roma.

Anyway i'm sure others may have more info etc...but this was the first time i ever read about this as i thought it was interesting to pass along.

Last edited by Six Foot Three; 09-14-2008 at 05:07 PM..
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Old 09-14-2008, 05:24 PM
 
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What about the Holy Roman Empire?
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Old 09-14-2008, 05:29 PM
 
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The Holy Roman Empire: It was neither "holy", nor "Roman" nor an empire.

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Old 09-14-2008, 10:01 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC, USA
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How about Charlemagne?
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Old 09-15-2008, 10:52 AM
 
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Interesting that the Conqueror of the Byzantine Empire ''Melmet II'' demanded to be called '' Kayser-i Rum'' which meant Ceasar of the Romans.

As for the Holy Roman Empire being the ''Third Roman Emipire'' i disagree with this although others are welcomed in interject their thoughts as i love Euro History and it's a constant learning experience.

I believe a better name for it would have been '' The Frankish Catholic Empire''. It basically was created to Counter the Byzantine encroachment into Europe along with their Greek Orthodox religion. The Byzantines expelled the Pope Leo III from Rome so he fled to Charlemage and they made a pact that Charlemagne would restore the Pope in Rome and then the Pope would grant him the title of ''Emperor of the Romans'' with it's Empire in France and Germany hence the name Holy Roman Empire.

So the Holy Roman Empire had no grande visions of a Third Roman Empire like the Byzantines or as the Russians had contiplated.
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Old 09-15-2008, 06:40 PM
 
Location: City of North Las Vegas, NV
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interesting, was not aware of an attempt for a 3rd
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Old 09-16-2008, 07:48 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6/3 View Post
Interesting that the Conqueror of the Byzantine Empire ''Melmet II'' demanded to be called '' Kayser-i Rum'' which meant Ceasar of the Romans.

As for the Holy Roman Empire being the ''Third Roman Emipire'' i disagree with this although others are welcomed in interject their thoughts as i love Euro History and it's a constant learning experience.

I believe a better name for it would have been '' The Frankish Catholic Empire''. It basically was created to Counter the Byzantine encroachment into Europe along with their Greek Orthodox religion. The Byzantines expelled the Pope Leo III from Rome so he fled to Charlemage and they made a pact that Charlemagne would restore the Pope in Rome and then the Pope would grant him the title of ''Emperor of the Romans'' with it's Empire in France and Germany hence the name Holy Roman Empire.

So the Holy Roman Empire had no grande visions of a Third Roman Empire like the Byzantines or as the Russians had contiplated.
Additionally, the Austrians at the time of Charlemagne, if I recall correctly, believed they were descended of the original Romans, which isn't too far-fetched given the high number of Alpinoid peoples in Austria.
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Old 09-24-2008, 06:46 PM
 
Location: City of North Las Vegas, NV
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A not too much talked about fact is that the first fall of the Byzantine Empire was before the Turks came around. The Crusaders "Franks" on their way to the Holy Lands came into the City/Constantinople and took much of the wealth with them. This weakened the Byzantines so much that they were unable to repel the Turks two centuries later
Recently the Pope was apologized to the Eastern Orthodox Churth for this not so much talked about fact: Better Late Than Never ! Pope Apologizes for Sacking Constantinople in 1024 A.D.

http://www.crusades-encyclopedia.com/apologyforthecrusades.html (broken link)

"The Byzantine Empire, for centuries a bulwark against invasion from the East, was damaged beyond repair. The Greeks never forgave the Europeans for the destruction of their state. A destruction that would bring the final end of the Greek Empire with the invasion of the Turks. An invasion that had as result the slavery of the Greeks for 5 centuries and the irrevocable loss of ancient Greek lands"

Above quote and much more on this very important topic here:

Fall of Constantinople, 1204

Last edited by WildWestDude; 09-24-2008 at 07:05 PM..
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Old 09-25-2008, 12:47 PM
 
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Thanks for posting about the Sacking of Constantinople as i need to learn more about the Eastern Empire in my studies. Reading the accounts of how the Crusaders destroyed and looted it reminded me of the way the Vandals and Goths sacked Rome in the same destructive manner some 750 to 800 years earlier.

I'll give you 4 reps when i can pass them out again.

6/3
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Old 11-06-2008, 11:12 AM
 
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I thought this was interesting to post as i was reading on another forum about about how in 660 the Byzantine Roman Emperor Constans II wanted to move the capital from Constantinople to Syracuse in Sicily. However he was assassinated which possibly prevented this from happening.
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