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Old 01-04-2009, 12:42 PM
 
Location: Illinois
2,418 posts, read 1,491,320 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
I hate to be picky about language, but do you mean "What would have happened. . . ?

Sorry, that particular construction is one of my pet peeves.

To answer your question, though, I suspect the Cold War would have been, right from its pre-inception, a hot war, and I can't see any way that that could have been a good thing.

The Germans met resistance on the eastern front and that cost Hitler any chance he had for decent success in the west. We would have been throwing ourselves up against the same kind of odds, embroiling ourselves in at least another Korea, but in Poland instead.

Patton might have been a tough and and competent militarist, but he was nowhere near Eisenhower in ability to look at the big picture from a standpoint more complex than to simply beat the hell out of them.
Boy, you know a lot of things about ,about history..,but I have trouble believing the surface explanation of what caused what and who said what. Who did what ...that is easier to believe........For me...but When it comes to just accepting what people say.........I was taught to be skeptical.....I also was taught To question what I see............were you taught to believe what is on the page, or tube? In math they taught me accept this and that...........but the higher the math the more they got into equations that had to be altered by the constant which they were not sure of or for all situations but used it as a foot stone until a better step could be found ........Sorry I am just learning about ,typing,and construction and LIFE
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Old 01-04-2009, 03:07 PM
 
Location: Illinois
2,418 posts, read 1,491,320 times
Reputation: 336
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
i hate to be picky about language, but do you mean "what would have happened. . . ?

Sorry, that particular construction is one of my pet peeves.

To answer your question, though, i suspect the cold war would have been, right from its pre-inception, a hot war, and i can't see any way that that could have been a good thing.

The germans met resistance on the eastern front and that cost hitler any chance he had for decent success in the west. We would have been throwing ourselves up against the same kind of odds, embroiling ourselves in at least another korea, but in poland instead.

Patton might have been a tough and and competent militarist, but he was nowhere near eisenhower in ability to look at the big picture from a standpoiint more complex than to simply beat the hell out of them.
i hate to be picky,too! Is this a thread for thinkers?
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Old 01-04-2009, 07:38 PM
 
2,377 posts, read 3,501,159 times
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I believe it is a thread for thinkers, questioners and people who are interested in history in all it's aspects...let's easy up on grammer and typo's..It is what is being said that is most important!!!
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Old 01-06-2009, 05:50 PM
 
25,249 posts, read 27,352,041 times
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Well, the answer depends on the timing. I mean, if we just start shooting Russians upon meeting them at the Elbe, then the Russians have the upper hand. If we wait until after the defeat of Japan, then it's another thing entirely, particularly if we didn't demobilize.

One thing people forget is that the United States supplied a great deal of the Russians warfighting capacity, from their fighters to their food and boots. The Russians simply did not have the logistical capacity, particularly after their industrial cities were devastated. Further, the Russian supply lines stretched much further out over an inferior road and rail network. So while the Russians were indeed incredible fighters, they would have run out of shells, bombs and bullets.

The United States would have enjoyed vastly superior strategic and tactical air power, something the Germans just didn't even have at Kursk. Just as importantly, the American Navy, in the Pacific, the Baltic, the Black Sea, and the Arctic Ocean, would have been able to execute amphibious landings at will. And, of course, the production of a half dozen atomic weapons and subsequent use on Russian troop concentrations or military headquarters would have had a serious impact as well.

The other consideration is political. The Germans really screwed the pooch with their brutal treatment of occupied Ukraine and Russia. Stalin was so hated that the Germans were initially treated as liberators. Only after the wanton cruelty of the Nazi occupation did Russians choose Stalin as the lesser of two evils. Of course, we'll never know, but I just don't think Russian soldiers would have fought the British, Americans, and French with the same ferocity as they had the Germans. Who knows?
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Old 01-07-2009, 12:54 PM
 
Location: OH->FL->NJ
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I read somewhere Patton kept various better German divisions together for a time after the war. Hoping to use them and their better armor against the Soviets.

True?
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Old 01-07-2009, 05:27 PM
 
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That sounds familiar. I seem to remember also reading that after The Great War some German troops were left to fight the Russian Communists in the Baltic. Does anyone know about that incident??
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Old 01-07-2009, 06:38 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trudeyrose View Post
That sounds familiar. I seem to remember also reading that after The Great War some German troops were left to fight the Russian Communists in the Baltic. Does anyone know about that incident??
Trudeyrose,

There may have been others, but there was a pocket of about 20 German divisions called Army Group North on the Courland (Kurland) Pennisula in Latvia that were cutoff as the Russian troops swept into the Baltic states and East Prussia. Gen, Guderian tried to get Hitler to evacuate these troops, but Hitler refused, saying they were needed to defend the submarine bases in the Baltic. They were only occasionally replenished by sea, but were able to hold out until the end of the war.
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Old 01-07-2009, 07:47 PM
 
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Thanks, John.. I knew I could count on you for the answer I think it was in the book I read "The Baltic A New History of the Region and Its People" by Alan Palmer. Very interesting book...gives the history of the region from beginning to the present.
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Old 01-07-2009, 09:44 PM
 
Location: ID
2,065 posts, read 4,295,408 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6 FOOT 3 View Post
From what i've always understood is that Gen. Patton wanted to drive the Soviets out of Berlin and East Germany but Allied Supreme Commander in Chief Gen. Eisenhower stopped him from doing so.

If that is correct lets assume ''Ike'' would have let Patton have at the Soviets to drive them back east. Would Japan have had an influence on either countries military at that point of the war?

Who's military was stronger in may 1945 ....The USA or The Soviet Union.
The USA had by far the stronger military at VE day. Patton probably would have driven to Moscow if he'd been allowed, and been given the material support.
Stalin would have been hanged, and (good luck) attempts to set up a decent government would have been made.
It worked in Japan and Germany, whether it would have worked in the massive USSR is a fine point to debate for alternate-history buffs.

Too bad Patton was (probably) assassinated. He'd have made a great president.
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Old 01-07-2009, 09:55 PM
 
Location: St. Augustine
9,258 posts, read 11,847,924 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwatted Wabbit View Post
Too bad Patton was (probably) assassinated. He'd have made a great president.
Cwazy wabbit.
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