Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Not counting warlike actions with armed belligerents on both sides, how many Indians and how many white settlers were killed in confrontations in the United States? Mainly, this would be civilian settlers who were ambushed by Indians in Indian territory, and Indians who were killed by whites under circumstances in which the Indians were not attacking.
Not as many as in the movies. I've never seen any real number for either. Numbers as low as 2000 for settlers up to a million plus for the various tribes. Would you count indirect deaths from disease?
Probably more white emigrants died from disease, accident, thirst and snakebite than from Indian attacks. I doubt that a figure can be given for deaths caused by Indian raids, but it's likely that whites gave as good or bad as they received. White injustices toward the Indians often precipitated trouble between the races.
In Bil Gilbert's fine book Westering Man, where he details the life of legendary frontiersman Joseph Walker, he notes that Indian raids on wagon trains, in Walker's experience, were not common events. The thousands of emigrants crossing the western plains had an enormous effect on the tribal cultures and their livelihood. Gilbert says, "As game became scarcer and spookier, the Indians were more inclined and had more need to harass whiles, for reasons of retaliation and as a means of seizing badly needed livestock and supplies. Also, as hunting grounds changed and became less productive, tribes had to travel farther and into different areas," This brought them into conflict with neighboring tribes and upset a natural balance.
It's probably fair to say that the Indians were no worse and no better than their white counterparts, and without the help of the Indians, the white man's settling of North America would have been much harder.
Many more white settlers were killed by Indians in the east than out west. The states of New York, Kentucky, Pennsylvania and Ohio saw particularly heavy losses. And the Virginia and Massachusetts colonies suffered very heavy losses during Indian uprisings as well.
The western state that sufferd the most from Indians was Texas where there a sort of blood fued-vendetta kind of thing going on between the Texans and the Comanches. Note that the Comanches distinguished between Texans and other Americans. The Kiowas got their licks in against the Texans too.
My books are still packed away because of a recent move while I wait for new bookcases, otherwise I'd get you some numbers. But the number of 2000 stated earlier in the thread is ridiculously low. As I recall in Kentucky alone over 1000 settlers were killed by Indians.
2000 is low. Prior to the early 1800s there were many confrontations between settlers/native americans in the east.
I know, but I saw that number several years ago in an article written by a Native American, can't even remember the title or the author but the number stuck. Being so unreasonably low was why I used it, the same with the 1 million number, which may be close if you add in disease and other non-hostile causes.
The western state that sufferd the most from Indians was Texas where there a sort of blood fued-vendetta kind of thing going on between the Texans and the Comanches. Note that the Comanches distinguished between Texans and other Americans. The Kiowas got their licks in against the Texans too.
Good post, Irishtom. As a Kiowa, I can tell you we have countless stories of our tribe making raids into Texas and Mexico. But it was also part of our tribal tradition if any man came in peace, he was to be unharmed. Going to war was a matter of honor and a way to gain respect and riches~ in the form of horses.
Personally, I don't think any modern movie ever hints at the sheer number of Indian people killed by diseases. I have heard of villages going from 30K to 3K due to diseases along the Missouri.
I think white settlers were trying to make it and Indians were trying to deal with the "illegal aliens" as they both saw fit.
Personally, I don't think any modern movie ever hints at the sheer number of Indian people killed by diseases. I have heard of villages going from 30K to 3K due to diseases along the Missouri.
Some historians think the numbers of Indians when the Europeans arrived has been vastly underestimated and that MANY millions died from Old World diseases and that many areas were practically depopulated by these diseases long before Europeans themselves actually arrived in them, thus giving the false impression that the New World was a wilderness when in fact it had been densely populated.
For instance DeSoto and his Spaniards encountered a Mississippi valley teeming with people and with the river banks lined with fields and large towns. Yet when Europeans next arrived there (Marquette and Joliet and then later LaSalle) about 100 years later all that was gone.
And there's also evidence that the Amazon basin was once densely populated by Indian farmers and that when those people died from Old World diseases THEN the rain forest overgrew the former farmland.
Location: West Los Angeles and Rancho Palos Verdes
13,583 posts, read 15,662,103 times
Reputation: 14049
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishtom29
Some historians think the numbers of Indians when the Europeans arrived has been vastly underestimated and that MANY millions died from Old World diseases and that many areas were practically depopulated by these diseases long before Europeans themselves actually arrived in them, thus giving the false impression that the New World was a wilderness when in fact it had been densely populated.
For instance DeSoto and his Spaniards encountered a Mississippi valley teeming with people and with the river banks lined with fields and large towns. Yet when Europeans next arrived there (Marquette and Joliet and then later LaSalle) about 100 years later all that was gone.
And there's also evidence that the Amazon basin was once densely populated by Indian farmers and that when those people died from Old World diseases THEN the rain forest overgrew the former farmland.
Yes, I read that as well. Those historians also mention that, in some cases gas chambers were built, disguised as showers, and the Indians were exposed to lethal dosages of Zyklon B or diesel fumes.
Maine had a lot of issues with settlers/indians but the situation played itself out fairly quick. I think (purely from memory) that the last attack was before Maine was even a legal state. That brings me to my next point, one must keep in mind that when indian/settler attacks were mentioned in MA...it was a HUGE land base and not the small state it is now.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
