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Old 08-17-2012, 03:03 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
11,170 posts, read 7,146,643 times
Reputation: 8401

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avshar View Post
Nice research. I haven't ever checked on the actual numbers. I will have to do so as well. Thanks.
As long as the topic is WW 1 aviation, I'll throw in some gratuitous trivia about Charles Nungessor.

I had mentioned that he was a hard drinker and high liver, during the war when he wasn't crashing airplanes he was getting drunk and crashing automobiles. There were times when he would arrive at his airfield in a car full of women after a night of partying, still dressed in a tuxedo, over which would go his flight togs and he would be up there on patrol in his evening duds. He very much was the embodiment of the cliche image of WW 1 aviators we get from the movies..flamboyant, high spirited, fly all day - booze all night. In reality they were a mix of differing personality types just as one finds in any collective. If they all had been as wild and reckless and as Nungessor, the attrition rate would have been far higher.

In the course of the war, Nungessor suffered three bullet wounds, one shrapnel wound, a skull fracture, multiple fractures of his jaw, a concussion, dislocation of both knees, a dislocated clavicle, dislocated wrist and dislocated ankle. He lost teeth, suffered numerous internal injuries and his left leg was left in a state of semi atrophy to the degree that he had to be helped into the cockpit of his aircraft.

Yet he survived the war. He became involved in some scheme to create a Cuban airforce which fizzled, and then went to Hollywood to be a stunt flier. If you watch the film "Dawn Patrol" which was released in 1930, but filmed four years earlier, that is Nungessor flying the evil enemy skull and crossbones plane.

In 1927 Nungessor became an 11th hour replacement for Paul Tarascon, a combat buddy of Nungessor's from the war. Tarascon and Francois Coli had decided to try and be the first to fly non stop from Paris to New York. Instead it was Coli and Nungessor who took off from Paris on May 8th, 1927...and never arrived in New York, their fate unknown apart from assuming that they crashed into the Atlantic and disappeared. Nungessor's incredible luck had finally exhausted itself.

Two weeks after their loss, Charles Lindbergh made the crossing, going the other way, New York to Paris, and became a sensational hero and the biggest international celebrity of his era.

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Old 08-17-2012, 03:35 PM
 
30,558 posts, read 18,858,750 times
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Perhaps someone mentioned this but I would also think that the altitudes they often dog-fought at would be low enough that it would make even more modern parachutes a dicey affair to deploy in time.
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Old 08-30-2012, 02:56 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada.
1,244 posts, read 745,146 times
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Just a bit of a correction, about Billiy Bishop. He was a Canadian, born in Owen Sound, Ontario.

The Toronto down town airport is the Billy Bishop air port.

He was the highest ranked Allied pilot, of the First World War, with 72 confirmed enemy planes shot down. He was awarded the Victoria Cross, for his bravery in the air.

During the Second World War, he was the Chief of the RCAF, fighter command.

On too many occasions, Canadians are "lumped in with the british forces " when in fact they were Canadian born.

Jim B

Toronto.
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Old 08-30-2012, 03:46 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
11,170 posts, read 7,146,643 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canadian citizen View Post
Just a bit of a correction, about Billiy Bishop. He was a Canadian, born in Owen Sound, Ontario.

The Toronto down town airport is the Billy Bishop air port.

He was the highest ranked Allied pilot, of the First World War, with 72 confirmed enemy planes shot down. He was awarded the Victoria Cross, for his bravery in the air.

During the Second World War, he was the Chief of the RCAF, fighter command.

On too many occasions, Canadians are "lumped in with the british forces " when in fact they were Canadian born.

Jim B

Toronto.
Who in this thread said Bishop wasn't Canadian that it needs correcting? I listed him as Great Britain's top ace, and he was, Canada being a part of Great Britain and all.

The other top Brits were not Englishmen either, McCudenn was a Scot and Mannock an Irishman. Proctor was from South Africa and Raymond Collenshaw was also a Canadian.
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Old 08-31-2012, 04:46 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada.
1,244 posts, read 745,146 times
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Grandstander>

Canada has not been a "part of Great Britain " since 1867.

During the First World War, Canada sent over 800,000 soldiers to fight the Germans. Every one of them wore a " Canada " shoulder flash on their uniforms. And a Maple Leaf cap badge, on their issue caps, with their battalion number below it.

My FATHER was one them, albet a underage, scrawny kid, who was a Vickers machine guuner. Obviously, he survived the war, but he was wounded three times, and was completely deaf in one ear. Firing about three million rounds ( his estimate ) will do that to you.

At the END of that war, Canada was one of the nations that signed the peace treaty, not as a colony of Great Britain, but as a independant nation.

Can you see now why we Canadians are sensitive about being " lumped in with the Brits ' ?

Cheers Jim b

Toronto.
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Old 08-31-2012, 06:02 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
11,170 posts, read 7,146,643 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canadian citizen View Post
Grandstander>

Canada has not been a "part of Great Britain " since 1867.

During the First World War, Canada sent over 800,000 soldiers to fight the Germans. Every one of them wore a " Canada " shoulder flash on their uniforms. And a Maple Leaf cap badge, on their issue caps, with their battalion number below it.

My FATHER was one them, albet a underage, scrawny kid, who was a Vickers machine guuner. Obviously, he survived the war, but he was wounded three times, and was completely deaf in one ear. Firing about three million rounds ( his estimate ) will do that to you.

At the END of that war, Canada was one of the nations that signed the peace treaty, not as a colony of Great Britain, but as a independant nation.

Can you see now why we Canadians are sensitive about being " lumped in with the Brits ' ?

Cheers Jim b

Toronto.
You are taking offense over slight which exist only in your imagination.

Billy Bishop flew for Great Britain, did he not? I listed him as the leading ace for Great Britain, which he certainly was, wasn't he? Had I written "Billy Bishop was the second leading ace of the Triple Entente", would you have also rushed in to "correct" me by pointing out that Bishop was Canadian?
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Old 09-01-2012, 01:54 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada.
1,244 posts, read 745,146 times
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OK have it your way.

I'll make note of your screen name for future considerations.

Jim B

Toronto.
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Old 09-01-2012, 02:44 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
11,170 posts, read 7,146,643 times
Reputation: 8401
Quote:
Originally Posted by canadian citizen View Post
OK have it your way.

I'll make note of your screen name for future considerations.

Jim B

Toronto.
What? Are you some sort of hyper Canadian nationalist who goes around seeking revenge for imagined slights to Canada? When the Canadians hordes who are massed at the US border are released for the great conquest, am I to be singled out for "special treatment?"

Or does "future considerations" mean what it means in a baseball trade...a player to be named later or some cash sent to complete a deal? If so, I'll take the cash.

You'll have to explain if I am to feel properly threatened here. What precisely are the supposed ramifications of being on your notation for "future considerations" list?
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Old 09-02-2012, 01:06 PM
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada.
1,244 posts, read 745,146 times
Reputation: 3098
How about this.... I'll ignore you and you can do the same, with me ?

Jim B

Toronto.
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Old 09-03-2012, 12:31 AM
 
2,924 posts, read 1,043,469 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doss1 View Post
I'm reading a book titled NO PARACHUTE about a WW1 aviator. He questioned why the balloon observers wore parachutes while he and his own aviators did not have any. I haven't finished the book yet, but the author (the pilot) claims that it may be because they could barely fit into the airplane cockpit and any chance to enlarge the cockpit would cut into performance issues of the airplane.

My thought is that this is not the real reason. But, what do you all think?
Weren't the WWI planes flying to low for the parachutes to be effective. There are no parachutes on choppers today...
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