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Not so much in relation to generals, but a MAJOR reason the SS units fared so well in combat, and were so needed on, in particular, the eastern front, was that they received huge preference in regard to both equipment and replacement soldiers.
Not to demean their fighting ability one bit, but Wermacht commands lusted after having an SS corps attached since they new it would be much closer to fully outfitted than a corresponding Wermacht corps.
lln
With all due respect, this is not entirely accurate. The majority of Waffen-SS units were armed with Wehrmacht leftovers and weapons from the armories of the various nations the Germans had occupied. The only exception were the "Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler", "Das Reich", and "Totenkopf" divisions. These were greatly upgraded beginning in 1942 when Hitler ordered that they be turned into panzergrenadier divisions and equipped with heavy tanks, artillery, and armored vehicles. In all, these panzergrenadier divisions tended to be more powerful then army line panzer divisions. However, that was by design rather then a situation of preferential allotment of equipment. And while there is no doubt that Waffen-SS units attached to Wehrmacht army groups in the East proved to be extremely valuable assets, from a numbers standpoint, the Waffen-SS never made up more then 5% of the total forces available to the Wehrmacht to wage war.
When it came to manpower, the Waffen-SS was at a disadvantage from the beginning of the war to the end. A longstanding agreement between Hitler and the High Command guaranteed nearly exclusive "right", if you will, to the Wehrmacht for conscripts and volunteers in Germany proper. As no restriction was placed on Himmler's ability to expand the Waffen-SS from within, he simply transferred men over from the General-SS to enlarge it rapidly. Surprisingly, the Wehrmacht even had an advantage in recruitment from the leadership ranks and regular members of the Hitler Youth. To make up the deficit in men, Himmler set about actively recruiting in areas of the Reich that had large ethnic German populations, which was not technically a violation of the High Command/Hitler agreement. The Waffen-SS was further padded with divisions that were made up of volunteers from all over occupied Europe. Through this latter method, divisions such as "Wiking", "Nordland", "Wallonie", and "Charlemagne" were created. In this area, the Waffen-SS had a slight advantage, but the Wehrmacht was also very successful in obtaining it's fair share of foreign volunteers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223
Well, another thought to consider about the SS's vaunted fighting abilities. If I understand correctly, captured SS soldiers on the Eastern front were almost always executed immediately by the Soviets, whereas Wehrmacht soldiers at least had a reasonable chance of surviving capture--albeit in a Siberian labor camp. So the SS were ferocious in combat, partly because their choices were to either prevail or die.
The point you raise is important so I will expand on it a bit. It is true that by their nature and training, Waffen-SS troops fought hard and gave their enemies no quarter. As this reputation spread on the Eastern Front, and later on the Western, the opponents the Waffen-SS faced were reluctant to give them the opportunity to surrender. They figured that such an uncharacteristic move must be some sort of trap. And at least in the East, as you pointed out, those that did successfully surrender usually didn't last long, therefore why even bother?
Another thing to consider is that non-German members of the Waffen-SS tended to fight to the last man because they knew if they were returned to their home countries, they would be viewed as traitors. Over 2,000 members of the Serbian Volunteer Corps that served in the Waffen-SS, retreated into Austria and surrendered to the British. The British promptly turned them over to Josip Tito's forces. Most were summarily executed. Thousands of Cossacks who fought with the Germans also suffered the same fate when they were forcibly turned over to the Soviets at war's end.
While the exact number is not known, it is estimated that between 180,000 to 250,000 Waffen-SS soldiers died in combat. Something in the neighborhood of 400,000 were wounded, and over 40,000 were listed as missing in action. Lastly, 36 general officers were killed in action, which equated to almost one officer per each Waffen-SS division. Total war definitely has it's price.
I just wanted to chime in as i really appreciate everyone's answers who posted on this thread that i started as it's reps for all of you.
Tony T, you are the man when it comes to Hitler's Generals as you've taught me well about them over these last several years on here whether it is the battle front line generals or the high command generals etc. Besides i think the moderator Trudyrose is a Hitler WW2 freak (I'm just teasing ya Trudy )
I just wanted to chime in as i really appreciate everyone's answers who posted on this thread that i started as it's reps for all of you.
Tony T, you are the man when it comes to Hitler's Generals as you've taught me well about them over these last several years on here whether it is the battle front line generals or the high command generals etc. Besides i think the moderator Trudyrose is a Hitler WW2 freak (I'm just teasing ya Trudy )
As always my friend, your kind words are much appreciated.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223
Well, another thought to consider about the SS's vaunted fighting abilities. If I understand correctly, captured SS soldiers on the Eastern front were almost always executed immediately by the Soviets, whereas Wehrmacht soldiers at least had a reasonable chance of surviving capture--albeit in a Siberian labor camp. So the SS were ferocious in combat, partly because their choices were to either prevail or die.
Your post reminded me of this film, which I've never seen though I'd like to:
I think that as far as tacticians,none of the Waffen SS 'generals' were of the caliber of the Wehmacht generals. In my opinion,although Hausser made the correct decision at Kharkov;it was my understanding that von Manstein,had to make this decision. I think the Waffen SS shone as has been stated with Teddy Wisch, Peiper, Kraas,Hein von Westernhagen ,Wittmann etcetc..............the upper ranks like Mohnke and Deitrich were IMHO inspirational leaders!
Paul Hausser was probably the oustanding Waffen-SS general. Others that have not been mentioned, I believe, were Felix Steiner, commander of the 5th SS Panzer Div. "Wiking", Wilhelm Bittrich, CO of the II SS Panzer Korps, and Heinz Harmel, CO of the 10th SS Panzer Div. " Frundsburg". All capable, first class commanders.
The Waffen- SS also included some loathsome war criminals in it's general's ranks, such as Theodor Eicke of the Totenkopf Div., Jurgen Stroop, and Erich von dem Bach-Zelewski.
I remember von Rundstedt's comment on Sepp Dietrich, likely tinged with aristocratic disdain; " Decent, but stupid."
Paul Hausser was probably the oustanding Waffen-SS general. Others that have not been mentioned, I believe, were Felix Steiner, commander of the 5th SS Panzer Div. "Wiking", Wilhelm Bittrich, CO of the II SS Panzer Korps, and Heinz Harmel, CO of the 10th SS Panzer Div. " Frundsburg". All capable, first class commanders.
The Waffen- SS also included some loathsome war criminals in it's general's ranks, such as Theodor Eicke of the Totenkopf Div., Jurgen Stroop, and Erich von dem Bach-Zelewski.
I remember von Rundstedt's comment on Sepp Dietrich, likely tinged with aristocratic disdain; " Decent, but stupid."
Yeap i've seen this movie as the first half is not bad where they are in the Soviet prison camps however the second half where he escapes and is traveling thru the country was lame at best as i'd give it a six out of a ten score.
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