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Old 08-25-2009, 07:38 PM
 
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Had Meade aggressively pursued Lee, trapping the Confederate Army on the banks of Potomac at Williamsport how would the war have been changed?
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Old 08-25-2009, 08:04 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
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Are you asking how the war would have changed if Lee had been forced to surrender at the time, or are you asking if Lee would have been able to escape the trap or not?

Also...does either side have a Time Machine?
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Old 08-25-2009, 08:08 PM
 
Location: San Antonio
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Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
Had Meade aggressively pursued Lee, trapping the Confederate Army on the banks of Potomac at Williamsport how would the war have been changed?

Well with the loss of Lee's army and the loss of Pemberton's at Vicksburg that leaves only Bragg's army in Tennessee facing old Rosey and the *** is pretty much up. I figure Rosecrans could whip Bragg, afterall it was only the reinforcements from Lee that allowed Bragg to whip him at Chickamauga.

Taking Pemberton's, Bragg's and Lee's armies off the board just leaves mopping up various small armies, mainly along the coast and in the trans-Mississippi.

I think a Rebel victory at Gettysburg would've led to a faster Union victory too.
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Old 08-25-2009, 08:13 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Irishtom29 View Post
I think a Rebel victory at Gettysburg would've led to a faster Union victory too.
How so???
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Old 08-25-2009, 08:47 PM
 
Location: San Antonio
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Originally Posted by Rhett_Butler View Post
How so???

Instead of Grant and the Army of the Tennessee sitting on their butts for the next few months Stanton puts the Thirteenth, Fifteenth and Seventeenth Corps on the boats up to Cairo and then on the cars east. Sixteenth Corps holds on in western Tennessee and Mississippi.

Meanwhile Rosecrans and Bragg probably would have gone about their business in Tennessee and Georgia pretty much like they really did.

If Grant faces Lee with his western army he has a pretty good chance of whipping him; what with his army feeling invincible and with energetic and fast moving corps commanders McPherson, Sherman and Ord. And there'd still be the ole Army of the Potomac around too.
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Old 08-25-2009, 09:03 PM
 
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So fresh off of the Vicksburg Campaign, Grant is raced out to confront Lee.....

The great questions are where? and when?

I mean you still have the intolerable spectre of the Confederate Army roaming free in Pennsylvania for what would have to be a matter of weeks at the very least before Grant could get there.

I guess a lot depends on the circumstances of the victory at Gettysburg.... Is Meade routed? Or are we saying Meade makes a tactical withdraw (unlikely) ?

Also, doesn't this leave Johnston a potentially superior force in Mississippi? IIRC he didn't really expend much energy, or any of his forces to help with Vicksburg, so what about that army?
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Old 08-25-2009, 09:20 PM
 
Location: San Antonio
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Originally Posted by Rhett_Butler View Post
I guess a lot depends on the circumstances of the victory at Gettysburg.... Is Meade routed? Or are we saying Meade makes a tactical withdraw (unlikely) ?

Also, doesn't this leave Johnston a potentially superior force in Mississippi? IIRC he didn't really expend much energy, or any of his forces to help with Vicksburg, so what about that army?

Good points.

Well I'm assuming the AotP would escape intact as it did from it's other defeats.

I wouldn't look for much action from Johnston. If the Sixteenth Corps was huddled up in Vicksburg it's hard to imagine old Joe going after it. The Federals would have to destroy their own works before leaving and pull in on a shorter line which the garrison at Vicksburg actually did anyway. And much of the Ninth Corps was there too under Parke, I forgot about them. Parke proved to be quite capable when Burnside wasn't around.
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Old 08-25-2009, 09:32 PM
 
Location: Texas
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Meade did agressively pursue Lee...with what he had left.

Never forget the horrendous number of casualities, on both sides, before passing judgment on ol' Turtle's handling of the aftermath.
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Old 08-26-2009, 04:07 PM
 
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Originally Posted by stillkit View Post
Meade did agressively pursue Lee...with what he had left.

Never forget the horrendous number of casualities, on both sides, before passing judgment on ol' Turtle's handling of the aftermath.
You sound like the apologist at the New York Times.

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive...BE668388679FDE

of better yet, Wittenberg, Petruzzi, Nugent and Beatie's work in "Gettysburg One Continuous Fight"

Despite the two above cited examples, the fact remains, and as Grant would have seen it and you have pointed out, both sides suffered horrendous casualties, but one side was a long ways from its base of supply and had been thoroughly repulsed over the last two days of the battle. Secondly Meade's pursuit was based upon his calvary and 2 of his eight remaining divisions, as beat up as they may have been, they were certainly no worse off than Lee.
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Old 08-26-2009, 04:33 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Rhett_Butler View Post
So fresh off of the Vicksburg Campaign, Grant is raced out to confront Lee.....

The great questions are where? and when?
Not to step in for the op, but I suppose that would be where ever he could be found and whenever he could find him.

In truth, the above scenario is precisely what happened except that Grant took his time getting to the east and Lee didn't win at Gettysburg, but at the end of the day, Grant came east to find Lee.

Quote:
Or are we saying Meade makes a tactical withdraw (unlikely) ?
Meade had originally planned to draw Lee to a position behind Pike Creek and even on the night of the first day of battle, fearing that his flank might be turned, Meade still considered withdrawal to that defensive line. If Lee had been able to hand Meade a defeat would have had ample ability to withdraw.
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