Any thoughts About Why Spain Was Neutral In Both WW1 and WW2? (Hitler, European)

[Nosferatu]

Originally Posted by cpg35223

The short answer? Because they were smart.

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In 1939, after the Civil War, Spain was destroyed. No bridges, no railways and all the gold reserves in Moscow. People were starving. Factories were in dire conditions after properties were restored to owners. No capital.

Of course, Franco was very grateful to Hitler and Mussolini, but he knew that the Axis was going to loose the war as early as 1940.

Hitler wanted Franco to let German troops go through Spain to take Gibraltar, but Franco (very smart) said that "only Spanish troops would ever conquer Gibraltar". He said that he would oppose foreign troops in Spain.

He sent the Blue Division to Russia "not to fight Russians, but communism". Blue Division soldiers were volunteers, mostly from Falange (Fascists).

If Franco was something, he was pro-American. He had many friends in the US and they saved him. Also General Perón from Argentina, he donated wheat when Spain was literally starving.

[Nosferatu]

Originally Posted by j_k_k

Evidently Hitler's meeting with El Caudillo at the border was quite amusing. I understand that Franco professed long and undying amity and affection, then proceeded to give Adolf a long, exasperating recital of all the stuff he needed: probably enough to re-equip his whole military.

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Well, yes, but that's was not the real purpose.
Franco made made unrealistic petitions that he knew that Hitler could never comply.
For example, he wanted French Morocco, etc.

[TonyT]

To say Spain was “neutral” during the Second World War is probably accurate if you interpret the meaning of the word very loosely. Franco often spoke of “strict neutrality” and later on “non-belligerency”, but he certainly assisted the Axis war effort in every way possible. And there should be little doubt that Franco was pro-Axis as were his closest advisers within the Falange. To put an even finer point on it, Franco was pro-Italy/Mussolini. He had a great personal affinity for Mussolini and felt that Spain and Italy’s shared Latin heritage and Catholic roots made them natural allies. And like Mussolini, Franco had dreams of re-establishing the glory of Spain and the empire that she had lost. But Franco realized early on that the real power player was Germany so he did as much as he possibly could to curry favor with Hitler. Unfortunately at this juncture, Hitler had no real interest in Spain or the Mediterranean. So in the lead up to the war, Franco set about rebuilding his relationships with Britain and France who had long been Spain’s most important trading partners.

All of this changed in May 1940 with the German invasion of France. Seeing an opportunity, Franco dispatched one of his senior generals, Juan Vigon, to Berlin on June 3, 1940. Franco wanted to determine what Spain might be able to get out of Germany in exchange for Spanish entry into the war. Preoccupied with finishing off France, Hitler delayed the meeting with General Vigon until June 16th. In the interim, the French forces began to rapidly collapse and Italy formally declared war against France on June 10th. Hoping to further his chances with Hitler, Franco publicly declared his support for Germany and Italy in their war against the Allies. This was taken as a sure sign by outside observers that Spain fully intended to join the Axis side. When Vigon and Hitler did meet, Vigon offered up what it would take for Spain to become an Axis partner: Gibraltar, French Morrocco, and part of Algeria, plus massive military and economic assistance to bring Spain into a war ready mode. Hitler was rather cold to this laundry list of requests, largely because Italy had her eyes set on obtaining the same territories that Spain so desired. Feeling that Britain would fold relatively soon anyway, Hitler basically said “thanks, but no thanks”.

Franco was hardly idle during the intervening months. Serious consideration was given to taking advantage of the defeat of France and sending an invasion force into French Morocco. Unfortunately for Franco, the Vichy government had successfully lobbied the Germans to be allowed to keep their forces in North Africa armed and intact. Add to that the request from France for Spain to mediate armistice terms with Germany, and Franco was placed in a position where any major moves into Morocco were out of the question. Franco then went after the one prize that he could obtain with little effort; the city of Tangier which was then being administered by a multinational panel. Franco claimed it was to guarantee the safety and neutrality of the city, but it was just an easy prize that could be taken without fear of Allied opposition.

October 1940 marked the last major push by Germany to bring Spain into the Axis. During a meeting between Spanish envoy Ramon Serrano Suner and German Foreign Minister Joachim von Ribbentrop, a general agreement was reached that Spain would enter the war once she had resolved her current economic difficulties. Germany would be given certain economic concessions in Spanish Morocco and take over investments that Britain and France had in Spain. Ribbentrop then mentioned that Germany would very much like to take over one of the Canary Islands for use as both a naval and air base, and perhaps even one of the islands off the coast of Spanish Guinea. In addition, Germany expected to be given bases in Morocco. Suner made it clear that Spain would not give up any of it’s territory under any circumstances.

During the meeting between Franco and Hitler at Hendaye on October 23, 1940, Franco repeated the requests originally relayed to Hitler by General Vigon. By now, Hitler had pretty much made up his mind that the territory that Spain desired would remain under the control of the Vichy government. Vichy had clearly demonstrated their willingness to fend of militarily any moves by Free French and British forces to take over France’s North African colonies, so Hitler saw no reason to offend what he considered a much stronger ally then Spain could ever be. He briefly considered flat out lying and promising the territory in question to Italy, Spain and Vichy France, but he rejected the idea. In the end, Hitler offered nothing as did Franco, so the only thing that resulted from the meeting was a vague agreement that Spain would enter the war when it wanted to.

Franco attempted several times to re-open negotiations in the weeks after the Hendaye meeting, but those efforts went nowhere, so Franco finally decided to stay out of the Axis and the war. Germany made one more try at bringing Spain into the war in February 1941. The deal discussed would have allowed Germany to attack Gibraltar with Spanish assistance and allowed Germany to use some Spanish islands as bases. A plan, code named “Operation Felix”, was even drawn up for the assault on Gibraltar. But once again, Hitler would not commit to meet any of Spain’s demands, so the deal died. And with “Operation Barbarossa” at the forefront of his mind, Hitler completely lost interest in gaining Spain as a war partner.

The failure to reach a deal with Germany did not end Spain’s enthusiasm for the war or her willingness to assist Germany in any way she could. Spanish citizens were allowed to go to work in German war factories. Vital shipments of tungsten were sent streaming across the border into Vichy France and onward to Germany. Thousands of Spanish men volunteered to serve in the Blue Division for the all important fight against Communism taking place in the Soviet Union. Spanish intelligence operatives worked hand and hand with their German and Italian colleagues. The fall of Stalingrad, the decimation of the Blue Division, and serious restrictions in oil shipments from the U.S. all convinced Franco that it was time to revert back to “strict neutrality”. Bit by bit, the ties with Germany were cut and by early 1944, Spain no longer had any connection with Germany. Interestingly, Spain almost entered the war in April 1945, though on the side of the Allies. Franco was enraged by the destruction of Spanish property in the Philippines and the killings of hundreds of Spanish citizens at the hands of retreating Japanese troops. However, it was made clear to Franco by the Allies, that such a declaration of war would be viewed as “too little, too late” to make up for his previous four years of assistance to Germany, so he ultimately decided against it.

In reality, Spain staying out of the war had little to do with General Franco somehow being prescient and seeing that the Axis was fighting a losing battle. Instead, it can be directly traced to his inability to strike a deal that would have enabled Spain to once again become a major military power and restore her faded glory. It is actually fortunate for Franco that such a deal was never reached anyway. Other than access to Gibraltar, Spain had little to offer the Axis and would have been able to contribute virtually nothing of value to the war effort other than untold numbers of Spanish men for cannon fodder. Whether he was a fascist, a nationalist, or a cheap opportunist, the one thing you can say about Francisco Franco is that he was a very lucky man.

[Leovigildo]

In reality, Spain staying out of the war had little to do with General Franco somehow being prescient and seeing that the Axis was fighting a losing battle. Instead, it can be directly traced to his inability to strike a deal that would have enabled Spain to once again become a major military power and restore her faded glory. It is actually fortunate for Franco that such a deal was never reached anyway. Other than access to Gibraltar, Spain had little to offer the Axis and would have been able to contribute virtually nothing of value to the war effort other than untold numbers of Spanish men for cannon fodder. Whether he was a fascist, a nationalist, or a cheap opportunist, the one thing you can say about Francisco Franco is that he was a very lucky man.


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Oh, yes. He was sure that the Little Caporal was going to loose the war from the moment Hitler attacked England. He knew that the US would eventually enter into conflict.

Franco knew that Hitler was going to loose, and he gave a final blow to the Falange (Spanish Fascists) as early as 1940.

Franco was not a "cheap opportunist", he became a general when Hitler was a hobo.

Franco was not a fascist, he was authoritarian, catholic and anticomunist.

[WIHS2006]

Franco was not a fascist, he was authoritarian, catholic and anticomunist.

Agreed, he was kinda similar to Augusto Pinochet in Chile ... who people also like to label as fascist even though he was not. It seems that if your opposed to communism then you automatically must be a fascist

Franco was also a genuine war hero. He served almost his entire career before the Civil War in Morocco, first with the Regulares colonial infantry and then with the Spanish Foreign Legion. Anyone who serves in a unit who's motto is "Long live death!" has to be more then a little hardcore.

[markg91359]

Not sure about World War I. However, Spain maintained neutrality in World War II for a number of reasons:

1. Francisco Franco, its dictator for 36 years, was a cautious man. He wasn't about to join with Hitler and Mussolini until he knew that their victory in WWII was assured.

2. Remember, the British maintained a large military base at Gibraltar. It would have been comparatively easy for them to send an expedition into Spain if Franco allied himself with the Axis.

3. After the Spanish Civil War (1936-1939) Franco and the fascists probably had their hands full just keeping control of Spain. I think they had little desire to pursue other wars. Its my understanding about 300,000 Spaniards died in the Spanish Civil War.

4. Because of its geography, Spain would have been very open to an attack or invasion from the Allied Countries. It also would have had a small, and poorly equipped armed force to repel this sort of attack. Finally, elements within Spain (the same ones that sided against the fascists in the Spanish Civil War) would probably have been a "fifth column" that would have been one more nail in Franco's coffin had an invasion occurred.

Unlike Hitler and Mussolini, Francisco Franco was unusually cunning and smart. He knew his limitations as a ruler. Perhaps, being a general had given him an education about what he could do and what he couldn't do. The greatest testament to Franco's intelligence is that he remained in power from 1939 until his death in 1975. Few dictators hold power for that long.

[TonyT]

Originally Posted by Leovigildo

Oh, yes. He was sure that the Little Caporal was going to loose the war from the moment Hitler attacked England. He knew that the US would eventually enter into conflict.

Franco knew that Hitler was going to loose, and he gave a final blow to the Falange (Spanish Fascists) as early as 1940.

Franco was not a "cheap opportunist", he became a general when Hitler was a hobo.

Franco was not a fascist, he was authoritarian, catholic and anticomunist.

During a speech at the Superior War College on December 19, 1942, Franco stated that "the destiny and future of Spain are closely tied to a German victory". Well, if he knew that Germany was going to lose the war as far back as 1940, why make such a statement? Further, why did he try so hard to get concessions from Germany in order to bring Spain into the war on their side in the first place? If Franco was as far-sighted as some make him out to be, then it really is nonsensical for him to have made such efforts at the risk of not only his future but that of his regime as well.

No, Franco was of the belief that he had been dealt a very good hand, so he decided to play it. But the hand consisted of only one card: a pathway to Girbraltar. The Spanish military was in shambles and it would take at a minimum 5 years and unknown sums of money to restore it to the point where it would be of any practical use to Germany. As one historian stated "Hitler was not interested in a high priced alliance with a destitute country for the capture of a distant British naval base". Due to that, the game Franco was trying to play failed, and that ended up being a good thing for Spain and Franco.

So with all due respect to your opinion, historical record seems to indicate that a combination of pure luck and Hitler's unwillingness to give Spain something for basically a whole lot of nothing was what drove Franco's decision to keep his country out of the war, not anything else.

Originally Posted by WIHS2006

Agreed, he was kinda similar to Augusto Pinochet in Chile ... who people also like to label as fascist even though he was not. It seems that if your opposed to communism then you automatically must be a fascist

I did not label Franco as a fascist, though there is little question that the Falange was a political organization that espoused fascist ideals and principles. Perhaps Franco didn't consider himself a fascist, and he may well not have been one, but his association with the Falange earned him that designation. Granted, from 1943 onward, Franco took steps to marginalize the fascist influence within the Falange and subordinate it to him. While this was done largely for his own personal reasons, it was also done to try to distance Spain from the stigma attached to the fascist ideology. In 1944, he told the British that the Falange was "an instrument of social programs, not a fascistic state party to govern the country". Later it became "a purely Catholic state that had nothing to do with fascism". Regardless, at the time, the world wasn't buying it, so at war's end, Spain became known as "the last remaining fascist regime in Europe" and was isolated internationally for years afterward.

[Sixx Foot Three]

TonyT,

while most on these forums have their own thoughts and expertise of the different historical era's on here however i just have to say that you are the master on here when it comes to WW2 as i've learned so much from you about all the different aspects whether it's the German high command, German battle generals especially durng the Russian war front, Mussolini/Italy and now Franco

[Nosferatu]

Tony

In 1942, before the speech, Franco fired Serrano Sunyer, the former Foreign Affair Minister (married to her sister) and a Nazy sympathizer, and he named Jordana, a man totally devout to Neutrality. He also controlled fervent Fascists (Falange) like Girón and Arrese that wanted involvement in the war.

Franco made that fanatic speech at the Superior School of War at the end of 1942 to content the Falange, FET, but in reality, he cut their wings. At that time, the Falange was demoralized because they thought that Franco had switched sides because the allied landing (and they were right).

Franco, as usual, was playing a double hand.

The Nazis in Madrid devised a plan to remove Franco, but Hitler didn't approve it because he knew that Falange was not powerful enough.

Franco was a "gallego", from Northwest of Spain, celts. There's a saying about "Gallegos" in Spain. "When you meet a Gallego in a stairway, you never know if he's climbing the stairs or going down".

At the Hendaya documents, during negotiations with Hitler, Franco wrote "speak in gallego", that can be translated as "speak in a tortous way never showing your thoughts".

He knew, from the very same inception of his meeting with Hitler, that the caporal would never meet his unrealistic demands, and just to insure that he would never accept, he added French Marocco, and he also said that he would never allow foreign troops to cross Spain to take Gibraltar, but he kept sending wool and wolfram and of course, the Blue Division.

The policy of Spain from the dimissal of Serrano Sunyer was:

Neutral in the conflict between Western Allies and Germany, in favour of Germany in her struggle against the U.S.S.R, and in favour of the Allies in their battle against Japan (Japanese killed many Spanish and destroyed many Spanish properties in the Philippines. They confined Spanish to Concentration Camps and exterminated them).

[TonyT]

Originally Posted by 6 FOOT 3

TonyT,

while most on these forums have their own thoughts and expertise of the different historical era's on here however i just have to say that you are the master on here when it comes to WW2 as i've learned so much from you about all the different aspects whether it's the German high command, German battle generals especially durng the Russian war front, Mussolini/Italy and now Franco

Thank you my friend. But "the master"? LOL...I definitely wouldn't go that far. There are a lot of very intelligent people in the History Forum who know as much, probably more, then I do when it comes to World War II. Sometimes I do feel like I'm the "all Axis, all the time" guy on here, but that's okay with me...LOL. My hope whenever posting is that people will find what I say to be interesting, informative, and a positive contribution to the discussion, whether they agree with my take on it or not. As long as that is the case, I guess I will keep hanging around the forum for awhile.