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Old 10-19-2009, 06:31 PM
 
31,385 posts, read 18,550,992 times
Reputation: 14472

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angus Podgorny View Post
Of course you are right, but don't expect Colonel Rhett to agree with you.
Never expect that he would since he has been beating his tired historical horse for quite some time on this forum.

 
Old 10-19-2009, 08:09 PM
 
27,925 posts, read 22,141,526 times
Reputation: 25675
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angus Podgorny View Post
Of course you are right, but don't expect Colonel Rhett to agree with you. He's still longing for what might have been - you know, happy darkies singing in the cotton fields while being served mint juleps.

He's taken a position that the South was the aggrieved party and that evil Mr. Lincoln forced them to make war on the United States. Nothing you can possibly say would change his mind.

I'm done with him. He is what he is.
The darkies got mint juleps? Dang. No wonder they sang.
 
Old 10-19-2009, 08:16 PM
 
900 posts, read 181,230 times
Reputation: 299
I'll bet you read those Yankee history books - you know, the ones that said slavery was bad! Nahh! When Rhett visited Miz Scarlett at Tara, they used to often listen to the darkies sing while happily picking cotton!

And yes, the darkies got those mint juleps just along with the white folks!
 
Old 10-19-2009, 08:17 PM
 
900 posts, read 181,230 times
Reputation: 299
And yes, Miz Scarlett and Rhett would join in the cotton-pickin!
 
Old 10-19-2009, 08:45 PM
 
Location: (Lyndon) Louisville KY USA
5,854 posts, read 13,046,718 times
Reputation: 3856
The war most similar civil war to the one in the US is the one in South Africa btw Whites of Dutch origin and ones of British. The North has always been mostly German (with lots of Southern & Eastern Europeans) while the South has always been mostly people of English, Scottish, and Welsh ancestry.The North even had German speaking battalions!

The US Civil War was about two views of society: an urban industrial society like the one in Germany, or a rural agrarian society like most of England and all of Scotland and Wales. Unfortunately those British Southerners sold their souls to the use of free slave labor for their farming economy. Besides the obvious moral problems with slavery, it also creates a society of fear and instability, as the Ruling race always fears violent retribution from the Slave class. Had the North not won the South would have ended up like Haiti.

I am strongly of the opinion that the North saved the South from itself and that the former Union states (Michigan, Ohio, etc) would be doing much better economically now w/o competition from the lower cost of living and warmer winters the South offers.
 
Old 10-19-2009, 08:49 PM
 
Location: Virginia
6,530 posts, read 9,214,345 times
Reputation: 3057
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
Has nothing to do with perspective. Fort Sumter was Federal property not South Carolina soil by any stretch of the imagination. South Carolina as a state had no jurisdiction over it before it seceded much less afterwards.
Has everything to do with perspective. You DO understand what "secession" means, no?


Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto
Lincoln forced the issue? Blockading a group of soldiers who never acted in a belligerent manner from receiving basic food and non-military supplies is forcing the issue? You'd think that Hitler learned a few things more from the South than previously recognized.
Blockading would be implying that they didn't have the option to leave. They did. Again, you apparently don't grasp what "secession" meant. The fort, according to South Carolina and the Confederate States ceased to be U.S. territory at that moment and it isnt' as though they weren't asked to leave....





Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto
Oh, cut the crap and the weasel words.
Nothing of the sort. Is it SO difficult to fathom that a person can see how an argument came to be and understand both perspectives without necessarily agreeing with one or the other?



Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto
Seven were already in rebellion, what's four more amongst traitors?
Ah, okay... You're just taking the baton in the "I didn't know that so I'll name call" relay from your pal and have no interest in an actual intellectual discussion about this.

Look it up. Read whomever's book you want. You'll find the same answer as to why the last four states seceded.
 
Old 10-19-2009, 08:51 PM
 
900 posts, read 181,230 times
Reputation: 299
England was a 'rural, agrarian society'? Really? And here's me thinking the Industrial Revolution started in England.

So does this guy:

Why was the Industrial Revolution British? | vox - Research-based policy analysis and commentary from leading economists

I'm guessing you've never been to the industrial midlands of England.
 
Old 10-19-2009, 08:56 PM
 
Location: Virginia
6,530 posts, read 9,214,345 times
Reputation: 3057
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angus Podgorny View Post
Of course you are right, but don't expect Colonel Rhett to agree with you. He's still longing for what might have been - you know, happy darkies singing in the cotton fields while being served mint juleps.

He's taken a position that the South was the aggrieved party and that evil Mr. Lincoln forced them to make war on the United States. Nothing you can possibly say would change his mind.

I'm done with him. He is what he is.
You have yet to present anything of substance.

Show me where I:

1) Stated I wished the South had won.
2) Stated that the South was unequivocally right in it's argument for secession
3) Stated anything racist, other than you implying that because I don't condemn the South for their "treason" that I must think slavery is okay.
4) Stated that the South was the "aggrieved party"

Fact is you can't. Fact is that you haven't answered any question I've asked of you with anything other than rhetoric. You've slapped stereotypical labels on me and haven't been right on a one of them.

Your reading comprehension is for s**t as I have simply stated that Lincoln did what he had to do and forced the South to do what it had to do to legitimize secession, but somehow for your sub-50 IQ that means more than it does.
 
Old 10-19-2009, 08:57 PM
 
900 posts, read 181,230 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
Never expect that he would since he has been beating his tired historical horse for quite some time on this forum.
I can believe that. It is always amazing to me how people can justify the unjustifiable and find excuses for evil. But they do. There are also people who will argue that historians have been unkind to Adolph Hitler, and he really only wanted 'lebensraum' for the German people and it was those nasty Brits that forced him into a war he really didn't want.

And they sound just as glib and self-righteous as this guy does.
 
Old 10-19-2009, 08:57 PM
 
Location: Virginia
6,530 posts, read 9,214,345 times
Reputation: 3057
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
Never expect that he would since he has been beating his tired historical horse for quite some time on this forum.
Yeah, why argue history when you can make your point with name-calling, eh???

When you wish to start refuting facts with facts, I'll be waiting.
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