U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > History
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jump to a detailed profile or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Business Search - 14 Million verified businesses
Search for:  near: 
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 11-24-2009, 10:52 PM
 
Location: Orange County, CA
3,542 posts, read 2,652,137 times
Reputation: 3599
Quote:
Originally Posted by paparaciii View Post
You should bear in mind that the date that is proclaimed as the beggining of WW2 is varying in different countries. For instance, in Russia it is June 22, 1941.
Every historian and scholar accepts September 1,1939 without question as the start of World War II.It most certainly did not start on June 22,1941,the day that Hitler doublecrossed Stalin and launched Operation Barbarosa.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-24-2009, 11:04 PM
 
Location: BOY-see
4,305 posts, read 6,608,681 times
Reputation: 4601
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackShoe View Post
Every historian and scholar accepts September 1,1939 without question as the start of World War II.It most certainly did not start on June 22,1941,the day that Hitler doublecrossed Stalin and launched Operation Barbarosa.
It isn't that cut and dried. Do you begin it with the Japanese occupation of Manchuria? The invasion of China proper in 1937? The German invasion of Poland as you mention? The declaration of war by the Anglo-French two days later? Barbarossa? Pearl Harbor? It depends when you consider that it became a world war. One could argue, for example, that it only truly became a global set-piece after Pearl; of course, by then a great deal of fighting had already occurred. But a great deal of fighting had already occurred in China for two years before Hitler invaded Poland.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-25-2009, 05:55 AM
 
Location: Western Cary, NC
4,349 posts, read 4,368,361 times
Reputation: 7219
Quote:
Originally Posted by paparaciii View Post
Don't you think this trial was the most cynical and hypocritical process the mankind has expierenced? I mean, there is no doubt that nazis deserved what the got but the most truthful moment of this tribunal was when one of the nazi leaders(possibly Goering) said:'you guys should sit right here next to me', refering to soviet officers.
I think their atrocities were without question deserving of a lifetime locked behind bars, but I also think the West and the Catholic Church were guilty of smuggling out many who were equally guilty of genocide. The Vaticanís ďRat LineĒ sent hundreds if not thousands into South and Latin America as monks where they hid till their deaths or till Israel tracked them down. The west smuggled German Scientist out to gain information on their research even when that research was at the cost of innocent lives. In the court of public opinion, these actions at best would be Guilt by Association. Nuremberg was a necessary step and lesson to not only the Naziís, but to humanity in general. Genocide is not acceptable in a civilized world, and needs to be addressed in such a way as to punish those who commit the atrocities. I am not a Capital punishment person so one issue I canít agree on with Nuremberg is the death sentences. I would have gone for life at hard labor.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-25-2009, 04:29 PM
 
Location: Islip Township
377 posts, read 444,155 times
Reputation: 235
While I feel The trials were justified in some case. Why were the JAPS not brought in to stand trial for the same crimes ??

Last edited by Nevar242; 11-25-2009 at 05:01 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-25-2009, 07:42 PM
 
4,347 posts, read 3,356,172 times
Reputation: 11685
While I feel The trials were justified in some case. Why were the JAPS not brought in to stand trial for the same crimes ??
.................................................. .................................................

They were. The Allied Powers who fought in the Pacific, the USA, Great Britain, Australia, China, New Zealand, the Netherlands, and the USSR created something called the International Military Tribunal of the Far East (IMTFE). In fact, the allied powers brought charges against approximately 5,000 Japanese charged with war crimes.

War criminals were divided into three categories. There were Class A, Class B, and Class C war criminals. Class A criminals were generally political leaders and politicians charged with instigating and carrying out the war including such acts as the attack on Pearl Harbor and the Rape of Nanking during the invasion of China. Class B and Class C criminals were officers and enlisted men generally charged with committing individual atrocities during the war such as the murder of prisoners of war. Approximately, 2000 such Japanese were sentenced to terms of imprisonment. About 900 Japanese were executed for committing war crimes. Perhaps, the most infamous war criminal to be tried and so executed was Japanese Prime Minister Hideki Tojo (head of Japan at the time Pearl Harbor was attacked). Tojo attempted to kill himself, but lived to stand trial.

The most glaring omission from this process though was Emperor Hirohito. General Douglas McArthur, who was head of American forces during the occupation of Japan, felt it was vital the Japanese people retain their emperor. He prevented war crimes charges from being brought against the Emperor. In reality, the Emperor knew most of what was being done by his country during the war.

Those Japanese who were not executed were released from prison in a relatively short period of time. By 1960, not a single Japanese remained in prison for war crimes. All the sentences were either commuted or served by this date.

Many have questioned whether the Japanese people have ever really accepted responsibility for some of the horrendous acts their nation committed during WWII. Japanese history textbooks are remarkably vague about WWII.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-26-2009, 09:13 PM
 
1,462 posts, read 519,525 times
Reputation: 790
Nuremberg was not perfect, but it was a beginning under which war criminals are being brought to justice in the Hague. That is not perfect, just as American justice is not perfect. It is a process.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-26-2009, 09:16 PM
 
Location: southern california
48,868 posts, read 45,073,226 times
Reputation: 39814
easy to say 60 years later. we are fickle. we now feel differently about euthanesia and abortion.
in fact would say by rush limbaugh and his 20 million followers they have far more in common with 3rd reich than our leaders did 60 years ago.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-26-2009, 09:31 PM
 
Location: Metromess
11,806 posts, read 13,608,911 times
Reputation: 4747
Regarding having Stalin as an ally, Churchill summed it up best after Operation Barbarossa started: "If Hitler invaded Hell, I would at least make a favourable reference to the Devil in the House of Commons".

It just doesn't get any better than that, IMO!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-26-2009, 10:58 PM
 
Location: Michigan
11,920 posts, read 6,024,320 times
Reputation: 3669
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
And of course the reason why German war criminals were tried and Soviets ones were not, was that the losers don't get to try the winners.

Churchill noted that the lesson of Nuremberg was "Make sure we win the next one as well."
I believe this is precisely what the OP was referring to as "hypocritical and cynical". He was right.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-26-2009, 11:01 PM
 
Location: Michigan
11,920 posts, read 6,024,320 times
Reputation: 3669
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackShoe View Post
Every historian and scholar accepts September 1,1939 without question as the start of World War II.It most certainly did not start on June 22,1941,the day that Hitler doublecrossed Stalin and launched Operation Barbarosa.
Bilge. Some historians consider World War II the second act of World War I. Some consider it to have started at the Marco Polo Bridge in 1937. Some consider it to have started with Barbarossa; some consider it to have started with the entry of the U.S.

What was in your seventh-grade history book may represent a general consensus of historians, but don't say "every historian and scholar" accepts this or that, because it is almost never true.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $84,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > History

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2014, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 - Top