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Old 01-06-2010, 09:27 AM
 
Location: Planet Water
815 posts, read 840,339 times
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Actually all is more interesting. Many losses it was possible to avoid. If the Finnish government has agreed to give to Stalin in rent a part of territory for placing of armies. But obstinate and proud Finns did not want. Probably their government wished "to be in Europe" under the flag of nazi Germany. Stalin's war was not capture. It was compelled for the war prevention. Stalin offered the Finnish government (for indemnification) the big piece of the earth in other place. The Finnish war is a shame of the Finnish government and the help of nazi Germany. We will be fair.
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Old 01-06-2010, 11:19 AM
 
594 posts, read 1,098,425 times
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It's unlikely we will ever know how many lives were senselessly wasted in the Soviet Union by both sides. However, the Russian's profligacy of lives seems to have exceeded even the Germans. Antony Beevor cites one terrible example, when "Three battalions of trainee officers, without weapons or rations were sent against the 16th Panzer Division." Beevor said, "That the Soviet regime was almost as unforgiving toward its own soldiers as towards the enemy is demonstrated by the total figure of 13,500 executions" at Stalingrad alone. There has been some questioning of that figure, but it's known that no excuses were accepted for deserters, slackers or those showing deference to the enemy. "Well-armed Komsomol volunteers or NKVD detachments were placed behind" the army regulars as a deterrent to desertion or retreat. Russian troops who had been captured by the Germans and later freed by advancing Soviet armies were viewed as suspect and thousands were deployed on "semi-suicidal" missions clearing mine fields.

Some ruminations: The question I've always had about the German-Russian conflict is why Hitler, who prided himself as a student of history would take a nation of 70 or 80 million people against a country of perhaps 180 million people, with a European land mass of 15 times the area of Germany. Obviously, he was blinded by the seeming invincibility of his forces after the fall of most of Europe. He had forgotten the unwritten first rule of war, 'Never invade Russia.' As Field Marshall von Runstedt wrote to his wife early in the war, "The vastness of Russia devours us." The average German soldier accustomed to the rolling forested hills of Germany must have been psychologically overwhelmed at the immensity of the nearly treeless steppe that seemed to go into infinity. The stark contrast of people living in mud hovels compared to the well-ordered, comfortable homes of Germany would certainly have made some question their mission.
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Old 01-06-2010, 01:14 PM
 
Location: BOY-see
4,341 posts, read 6,909,822 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eloy View Post
Actually all is more interesting. Many losses it was possible to avoid. If the Finnish government has agreed to give to Stalin in rent a part of territory for placing of armies. But obstinate and proud Finns did not want. Probably their government wished "to be in Europe" under the flag of nazi Germany. Stalin's war was not capture. It was compelled for the war prevention. Stalin offered the Finnish government (for indemnification) the big piece of the earth in other place. The Finnish war is a shame of the Finnish government and the help of nazi Germany. We will be fair.
So let me understand you correctly. Stalin threatens and bullies Finland, a country with very little ability to harm the USSR. Finns choose to fight back. And you think Finland should be ashamed? Seriously?
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Old 01-06-2010, 01:32 PM
 
Location: Planet Water
815 posts, read 840,339 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j_k_k View Post
So let me understand you correctly. Stalin threatens and bullies Finland, a country with very little ability to harm the USSR. Finns choose to fight back. And you think Finland should be ashamed? Seriously?
It is the reduced story.
Not Finland. The Finnish government. Their political .
Unwillingness to conclude the contract against NSDAP. It is good? Or to work on victory NSDAP. It is good?
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Old 01-06-2010, 02:06 PM
 
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Finland, a country that supposedly had little ability to harm the Soviet Union nearly caused the loss of their second largest city in operation barbarossa. The Finns were offered signficantly more land than they gave up to cede territory seen as critical to the defense of Leningrad. It was the only time Stalin ever offered a deal like that to anyone.

Quote:
Some ruminations: The question I've always had about the German-Russian conflict is why Hitler, who prided himself as a student of history would take a nation of 70 or 80 million people against a country of perhaps 180 million people,
The same reason he killed millions of productive workers in the death camps. He was stark raving mad.
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Old 01-06-2010, 02:20 PM
 
Location: Planet Water
815 posts, read 840,339 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noetsi View Post
Finland, a country that supposedly had little ability to harm the Soviet Union nearly caused the loss of their second largest city in operation barbarossa. The Finns were offered signficantly more land than they gave up to cede territory seen as critical to the defense of Leningrad. It was the only time Stalin ever offered a deal like that to anyone.
Have woken up!. The **** has pecked in an ass.
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Old 01-06-2010, 02:24 PM
 
Location: Planet Water
815 posts, read 840,339 times
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Quote:
Some ruminations: The question I've always had about the German-Russian conflict is why Hitler, who prided himself as a student of history would take a nation of 70 or 80 million people against a country of perhaps 180 million people,
Hitler? He likely read books Written in Paris in dung in 1600. There it was written that Tsar Ivan was the idiot and the drunkard and all its citizens were such.
It Harmfully to read "yellow press".
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Old 01-06-2010, 08:01 PM
 
59 posts, read 74,276 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j_k_k View Post
So let me understand you correctly. Stalin threatens and bullies Finland, a country with very little ability to harm the USSR. Finns choose to fight back. And you think Finland should be ashamed? Seriously?
Given Stalins record in the Baltic states and elsewhere, I don't think the Finns were confident they could trust any deal made with Stalin.
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Old 01-06-2010, 09:52 PM
 
Location: BOY-see
4,341 posts, read 6,909,822 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noetsi View Post
Finland, a country that supposedly had little ability to harm the Soviet Union nearly caused the loss of their second largest city in operation barbarossa. The Finns were offered signficantly more land than they gave up to cede territory seen as critical to the defense of Leningrad. It was the only time Stalin ever offered a deal like that to anyone.
A series of events that occurred only because the USSR pushed them around to begin with. Had the USSR left the Finns alone, they had absolutely no interest in participating in the war--a very sane attitude on their part.

Just because a country happens to be close to your second largest city does not entitle you to order it to surrender its own second largest city. Good lord.
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Old 01-07-2010, 01:33 PM
 
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The russians, who had a variety of quarells with the Fins did not assume they would not attack them. Every country in Europe who did adjut the Soviet Union joined in the invasion.
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