How Christian were the Founders?

[jtur88]

What may be relevant to this, is that only two of the Ten Commandments are presently codified into criminal law in the United States. A third one (false witness) is applicable only when specifically under oath in a court of law. So it is patently absurd to argue that the expressed Christian moral code is the basis for American law. In fact, the two commandments that are US law (kill and steal) are also the law in every single country on earth, and always have been, irrespective of the evolution of their criminal code or the religious influence on it.

Sharia law in Islamic countries is a great deal closer to the biblically revealed Ten Commandments than the law in the USA or any other predominantly Christian country.

[TravisW]

Originally Posted by jtur88

What may be relevant to this, is that only two of the Ten Commandments are presently codified into criminal law in the United States. A third one (false witness) is applicable only when specifically under oath in a court of law. So it is patently absurd to argue that the expressed Christian moral code is the basis for American law. In fact, the two commandments that are US law (kill and steal) are also the law in every single country on earth, and always have been, irrespective of the evolution of their criminal code or the religious influence on it.
Sharia law in Islamic countries is a great deal closer to the biblically revealed Ten Commandments than the law in the USA or any other predominantly Christian country.

"Bearing false witness" can also be aligned to slander and libel laws, so I think we have a solid 3 right there.

Also, although it's decriminalized in most states, there have historically been laws against adultery throughout the United States. That brings us to 4 commandments.

Sunday closing laws, prevalent through throughout the USA prior to the 1980s, are also vestigial to the Ten Commandments. There's 5.

Realistically, I think we're looking more at a 50% adherence from an historical perspective. Since the remaining commandments either deal with institutionalizing particular religious practice or with things not easily dealt with by law (coveting, honoring your parents), I think it does tend to support the prevalence of a Christian world view amongst Americans in general for at least the first 150 years of the Union.

Now, to address the initial question; it's nearly impossible to uncover the degree of personal religious devotion for the majority of our Founding Fathers, as 18th century Episcopalian religious language differs considerably from 21st century Evangelical (for example) religious language. People were less prone to flaunt extreme religious zeal, yet at the same time a level of piety was to be expected.

[Capt. Dan]

Originally Posted by jtur88

What may be relevant to this, is that only two of the Ten Commandments are presently codified into criminal law in the United States. A third one (false witness) is applicable only when specifically under oath in a court of law. So it is patently absurd to argue that the expressed Christian moral code is the basis for American law. In fact, the two commandments that are US law (kill and steal) are also the law in every single country on earth, and always have been, irrespective of the evolution of their criminal code or the religious influence on it.

Sharia law in Islamic countries is a great deal closer to the biblically revealed Ten Commandments than the law in the USA or any other predominantly Christian country.

I think most people who claim they would like to see more of a Christian influence on law would have one helluva time obeying most of them.

[noetsi]

Church records are among the most accurate records there are

So, for example, all the small rural churches that existed for short periods of time, kept their records and passed them on when they ceased to exist? All the slaves who attended African churches had their membership kept? All the catholics and other groups who were prosecuted in various states kept records of the unofficial meeting places they went to?

I doubt it very much. We have good records of churches that existed for long periods of time, and are well known. Not for attendance generally.

[Randomstudent]

Some founding fathers were very Christian like John Adams, others like Jefferson and Franklin...not so much.

I would argue the reason why there are so few references to Christianity in the central documents of the of the early Republic was because of first the problems with state churches Europe had and secondly the more involved a government gets in something like religion the more invasive it tends to get and I do not think the founders would have been able to sell that kind of federal government. This is because a big central government was what the revolution was fought against and as such originally the powers given to the federal government were supposed to be the bare minimum needed to have a cohesive state. On top of that there were state churches in the colonies/states until the early 19th century the founding fathers probably did not want the federal government to intrude upon something the states were doing already.

After the civil war and the 14th amendment however, the role of the federal government and constitution changed so radically that, to be honest, I do not think the founding fathers would have been able to anticipate current questions about the role of church and state in light of how much more powerful the federal government has become in relation to the states.

As to the notion of the US being founded on Christianity that is entirely false. We know this because the founders said it specifically in one of the first treaties entered into by the US government. Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli, passed unanimously by the Senate and agreed to by president Adams specifically states that the US is not founded upon the Christian religion.