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Old 04-23-2010, 01:09 PM
 
Location: Vancouver, B.C., Canada
9,216 posts, read 12,535,518 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackShoe View Post
The most obvious good result would have been no Hitler, no Nazi party, no Third Reich, no World War 11. The possible bad result; an unbloodied by war Soviet Union bent on conquests. Perhaps war would have started with the Soviets launching an attack to their west, or even worse, nuclear war with the West.
the soviets did not even bother with nuclear bombs till we made ours and there were only two that were ready in 1945
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Old 04-23-2010, 01:42 PM
 
Location: Metromess
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Originally Posted by BlackShoe View Post
The possible bad result; an unbloodied by war Soviet Union bent on conquests.
If the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk had stayed in force, the course of Russian history would likely have been completely different. The Communist regime might not have withstood the Russian Civil War, being so discredited by giving up so much territory. The USSR was quite 'bloodied by war', whether Germany lost WW1 or not.
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Old 04-27-2010, 07:05 AM
 
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Considering how Kaiser Wilhelm II and Ludendorff were two of nature's gentlemen the scenario I see is Germany actually breaking up after World War I. It was only through sheer force of will that Bismark unified the nation, and there had always been tensions between the rest of Germany and Prussia, which was seen as far too militaristic, authoritarian and undemocratic. Victory in a costly war does not grant a happy peace, and their governing styles would have alienated the rest of the nation once the emergency of the war was over. Unity bought what? More wars? I could easily see Baviaria joining with Austria. The Hungarians would not stand for such an inbalance in the German/Slav numbers but the Austrians had actually be blessed with reasonably pragmatic and progressive political figures who would have happily traded for a more unified nationhood. They would have cut the Hungarians loose to "go play with your fellow Slavs" and they would become a confederation with Austria-Bavaria. The Catholic Reinish area would, I think, would stay in Germany but become more autonomous. They would have this bargaining chip because Germany would annex part of southern and eastern France to give themselves a port on the med to support the colonies that would have been stripped from France, with transit through the Reihn. France would remain as a reduced state.

Germany would have been horribly overextended and would not have had the manpower to preserve its empire - remember that mutinies were commonplace back to 1917. I think since the Junkers were one of the two driving forces in Germany they would have kept the land taken in Brest-Litovsk as an area for the Junker aristrocracy to expand into, probably carving out a few client states along the border. The new Germany would be an increasingly authoritarian state in the east, but unable to extend its model to the western and southern regions.

Russia, red or white, would still be a threat but not to such a great extent.
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Old 04-27-2010, 08:18 AM
 
Location: Georgia
897 posts, read 848,612 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haver View Post
Considering how Kaiser Wilhelm II and Ludendorff were two of nature's gentlemen the scenario I see is Germany actually breaking up after World War I. It was only through sheer force of will that Bismark unified the nation, and there had always been tensions between the rest of Germany and Prussia, which was seen as far too militaristic, authoritarian and undemocratic. Victory in a costly war does not grant a happy peace, and their governing styles would have alienated the rest of the nation once the emergency of the war was over. Unity bought what? More wars? I could easily see Baviaria joining with Austria. The Hungarians would not stand for such an inbalance in the German/Slav numbers but the Austrians had actually be blessed with reasonably pragmatic and progressive political figures who would have happily traded for a more unified nationhood. They would have cut the Hungarians loose to "go play with your fellow Slavs" and they would become a confederation with Austria-Bavaria. The Catholic Reinish area would, I think, would stay in Germany but become more autonomous. They would have this bargaining chip because Germany would annex part of southern and eastern France to give themselves a port on the med to support the colonies that would have been stripped from France, with transit through the Reihn. France would remain as a reduced state.

Germany would have been horribly overextended and would not have had the manpower to preserve its empire - remember that mutinies were commonplace back to 1917. I think since the Junkers were one of the two driving forces in Germany they would have kept the land taken in Brest-Litovsk as an area for the Junker aristrocracy to expand into, probably carving out a few client states along the border. The new Germany would be an increasingly authoritarian state in the east, but unable to extend its model to the western and southern regions.

Russia, red or white, would still be a threat but not to such a great extent.
I think Austria very well could have expanded a little bit back into Northern Italy,where they pretty much got knocked out of in the 1860s.
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Old 04-27-2010, 08:55 AM
 
Location: Peterborough, England
442 posts, read 328,565 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haver View Post
Considering how Kaiser Wilhelm II and Ludendorff were two of nature's gentlemen the scenario I see is Germany actually breaking up after World War I. It was only through sheer force of will that Bismark unified the nation, and there had always been tensions between the rest of Germany and Prussia, which was seen as far too militaristic, authoritarian and undemocratic. Victory in a costly war does not grant a happy peace, and their governing styles would have alienated the rest of the nation once the emergency of the war was over. Unity bought what? More wars? I could easily see Baviaria joining with Austria.

Why? Germany didn't break up even OTL, after those [expletive deleted] Prussians had led it to defeat. It's even less likely after a victory.

If anyone joins anyone, it's more likely to be Austria (Or at least its western provinces) joining Germany.

Quote:
Germany would have been horribly overextended and would not have had the manpower to preserve its empire - remember that mutinies were commonplace back to 1917.
There were a couple of naval mutinies - mainly because the sailors hadn't a lot to do and had nothing to think about but their grievances. Afaik there were no German _Army_ mutinies until the end of the war.
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Old 04-27-2010, 01:28 PM
 
Location: On a Voyage Around the Sun
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I'd probably have the "von" back in my maiden name. My forebearers deleted it when "the Kaiser started causing trouble" and Americanized the spelling of what was left. I always thought it would be totally cool to be a "von".
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Old 04-27-2010, 06:08 PM
 
Location: Iowa
1,270 posts, read 1,495,167 times
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Originally Posted by DewDropInn View Post
I'd probably have the "von" back in my maiden name. My forebearers deleted it when "the Kaiser started causing trouble" and Americanized the spelling of what was left. I always thought it would be totally cool to be a "von".
Sorry, still no Von for you if Germany wins WW1, grampa would have had to change it to Smith or Jones. If the Kaiser defeats US, English and French forces in France, then discrimination against Von people back in the US becomes an even greater problem.

Hard to say how much longer Kaiser Wilhelm would have been around or at what point, if any, germany changes to democratic rule. Either way they gain much more power and retain it as as the decades pass without the rise of the Nazi's and the sour economic circumstances that helped them into power. Germany retains Albert Einstein and the team they lost because of Hitler, and they get the bomb and a space program. I can't see Britain or the US being too happy about it. I think with Germany prospering, Austria and all the german speaking peoples become unified at a pretty quick pace. France loses the most, but not much more than they eventually lost later in real history.

Maybe grampa Von would have packed up and moved to Germany to keep his Von safe. Or he could have moved to the upper midwest where a Von or Bismark could feel safe and sound. Still would have been bad for germans in other parts of the country.
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Old 05-30-2010, 10:37 AM
 
2,205 posts, read 2,136,262 times
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It would depend on how it happened. For these purposes I'll say the US never enters the war. France faces a desperate situation by war's end (as it did in real life), and this time it lacks the option of letting an inexhaustible supply of Americans pick up the slack. Britain meanwhile faces the choice of reaching a favorable peace or possibly fighting a long unwinnable war in a sliver of Belgium.

The upshot of this is that while Germany wins the war it lacks the ability to really dictate a settlement to the two most powerful surviving allies. Britain very likely gives up nothing. Perhaps the Boers begin to act up as it becomes apparent the British are going to throw in the towel, and this results in one or more Boer states being created from British African territory as German satellites. Japan meanwhile keeps the small amount of Pacific territory it has taken as Germany cannot really do anything meaningful to recover them at the time. Maybe they decide to invade Russia's Pacific territories if European powers get more involved in the civil war than they did historically. The US though neutral very likely cuts a deal with the Dutch and French to buy their remaining lands in the Americas.

Long term Germany becomes a true world power. It will in the near future absorb Belgium and the Netherlands if it does not do so at war's end as well as their remaining colonies which gives Germany Indonesia thus making it a major player in Asia. Britain meanwhile reverses its current course in regards to its colonies. The Dominions will be pressured to begin integrating more into the Empire than increasingly going their own course. With new German colonies or satellites nearby South Africa, Australia, and New Zealand will gladly do so. Canada may do so, or it may resentfully try to chart a course as an American satellite or part of the US. In any event Britain will probably let it go rather than fight a war with the US while a strong Germany sits across the water.

Britain will realize that it will have to develop its non-white colonies to have a chance to withstand the new Germany. You will see a crash course to bring its African, Asian, and American colonies up to par with Europe. Ultimately the British Empire endures as the strongest nation on earth. The US and Germany are close behind. Japan while still one of the major nations on earth is significantly behind these three.

A fascist regime comes to power in what remains of France, but with its neighbors as either fascist allies (Italy and Spain) or strong states (Britain and Germany) it never has the chance to train and redevelop its military and become a threat as the fascist Germany did. Unfortunately it does assure that dictatorships instead of democracies become the norm in Europe. Perhaps Germany took enough of northern France for Occitan to become the language people refer to as French though.
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Old 05-30-2010, 02:21 PM
 
Location: Peterborough, England
442 posts, read 328,565 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AuburnAL View Post
Britain will realize that it will have to develop its non-white colonies to have a chance to withstand the new Germany. You will see a crash course to bring its African, Asian, and American colonies up to par with Europe. Ultimately the British Empire endures as the strongest nation on earth.

Wouldn't it be the Indian Empire now? India would contain a substantial majority of its population, and if it's economically on par with Europe, what does it really need Britain for?

Might we get George V transferring his capital to Dehli, as in Saki's When William Came?
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Old 05-30-2010, 03:26 PM
 
Location: New York City
2,792 posts, read 2,781,432 times
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I think it would be impossible to bring non-white colonies up to par with Europe. Just like the U.S. cannot bring Iraq or Afghanistan up to par with itself today. The British did as much as they could building railroads, telegraph, introducing their legal system and so on.
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