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Old 04-22-2010, 02:35 PM
 
Location: Georgia
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How would Irish History have changed had the potato famine never happened? I think not nearly as many Irish would have emigrated to America and The Irish may not have revolted in 1916 and 1920.
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Old 04-22-2010, 04:07 PM
 
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And I've met people over from Down and Armagh that are downright reserved. Wonder where they got that?
From the Scots, lassie. Well, maybe the Scots.

I went to elementary school in a Philly neighborhood that was predominately Irish and Italian. I hated St.Patrick's Day, shillelagh this, leprechaun that, up with the Irish, everyone jumping all over you if you didn't wear green. The rest of the year it wasn't as bad. Heck, even some of the Italian kids were part Irish. Robert deNiro is more Irish than Italian.
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Old 04-22-2010, 06:57 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
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I think that the Irish people had to develop a hyper sense of enjoyment of life in order to cope with what has been a wretched history.

You know how American history may be compartmentalized into eras...Colonial...Founding.....Expansion...Civil War....Gilded Ages...Progressive Era...and so forth? Some good, some bad.

The chapter headings for Irish history seem unrelieved gloom. Things began well enough, Ireland was more advanced and civilized than most of the rest of Europe during the early middle ages, but then everything went to hell and it was....The Viking Atrocities...The Angevin Landgrab....The Tudor Reconquest....The Era of Bloody Chaos....The First Religious Civil War....The Cromwellian Massacres...The Next Religious Civil War...The Great Potato Famine....right on up to the understated..."The Troubles."
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Old 04-23-2010, 06:49 AM
 
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Originally Posted by David674UT View Post
How would Irish History have changed had the potato famine never happened? I think not nearly as many Irish would have emigrated to America and The Irish may not have revolted in 1916 and 1920.
I agree that it is unlikely without the mass starvation that the Irish would have emigrated in such numbers so rapidly, and kept it up.

However, a swelling population of peasants, plus an increasing number of Catholic Irish in politics and public life would have, I am inclined to think, made Ireland an even more volatile country in the second half of the 19th century, and that the period know as the Land Wars, plus the drive for Home Rule would have come to a head earlier.

My crystal ball says that the Home Rule question would have been resolved in a peaceful, if not altogether satisfactory way across the board, and that after many fits and starts and probably some bloodshed that total separation would have been achieved in the 20th century...but with perhaps much less bloodshed than has been the case in 20th century Ireland.
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Old 04-23-2010, 01:43 PM
 
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I have heard the mayars (modern hungarians) came from Central Asia but not from Mongolia. No one really knows where the gypsies came from.

The Irish experience with the english was not all that different than the native Americans in the US. They even called English settlments in Ireland "plantations." Many of these were actuall Scottish in nature. The english threw them out of scotland and they in turn displaced the Irish. Who ended up commonly in North America where they joined cavalry regiments fighting native Americans.

Not having anyone to displace the native americans got stuck on reservations.
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Old 04-23-2010, 02:33 PM
 
Location: England.
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Originally Posted by albion View Post
They are? have you visited an Irish bar in New York or Boston?
You found someone flamboyant in a bar?

Who'd have thought it?
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Old 04-23-2010, 05:09 PM
 
Location: Georgia
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Originally Posted by noetsi View Post
I have heard the mayars (modern hungarians) came from Central Asia but not from Mongolia. No one really knows where the gypsies came from.

The Irish experience with the english was not all that different than the native Americans in the US. They even called English settlments in Ireland "plantations." Many of these were actuall Scottish in nature. The english threw them out of scotland and they in turn displaced the Irish. Who ended up commonly in North America where they joined cavalry regiments fighting native Americans.

Not having anyone to displace the native americans got stuck on reservations.

the Gypsies came from India.
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Old 04-23-2010, 05:13 PM
 
2,790 posts, read 6,335,741 times
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Originally Posted by noetsi View Post
I have heard the mayars (modern hungarians) came from Central Asia but not from Mongolia. No one really knows where the gypsies came from.
My in-laws say their ancestors were followers of Atilla the Hun, and that he was Mongol. Wouldn't that imply he and his followers were from Mongolia; at least at some point? The reading I have done suggests that they may have been Xiongnu. Scholars are not agreed on the ethnicity of the group, but suggestions include Mongolia. There is even some thought, albeit controversial, that Xiongnu cognates to Hun.
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Old 04-23-2010, 05:15 PM
 
Location: Georgia
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Originally Posted by MICoastieMom View Post
My in-laws say their ancestors were followers of Atilla the Hun, and that he was Mongol. Wouldn't that imply he and his followers were from Mongolia; at least at some point? The reading I have done suggests that they may have been Xiongnu. Scholars are not agreed on the ethnicity of the group, but suggestions include Mongolia. There is even some thought, albeit controversial, that Xiongnu cognates to Hun.

The Huns were mongolians,so were the original Turks.
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Old 04-23-2010, 05:55 PM
 
1,308 posts, read 2,857,323 times
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Originally Posted by MICoastieMom View Post
My in-laws say their ancestors were followers of Atilla the Hun, and that he was Mongol. Wouldn't that imply he and his followers were from Mongolia; at least at some point? The reading I have done suggests that they may have been Xiongnu. Scholars are not agreed on the ethnicity of the group, but suggestions include Mongolia. There is even some thought, albeit controversial, that Xiongnu cognates to Hun.
While your in-laws may believe this, most historians place the Mayars (the modern hungarians) as arriving much later than Atilla - after the 9th century while he lived in the 5th. There is very little knowledge of who the Huns were or where they came from. After Atilla's death (he campaigned mainly in the balkans and france) the alliance of tribes he led essentially vanished.

Mongolians are usually used to reference the asiatic groups such as the Mongols of the 12th through 14th century. The mayars are caucasion (European). But different European nationalities have "myths" that lie outside historical research.
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